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See also:
- "The Jesus Puzzle: Was There No Historical Jesus?" by Earl Doherty
- "Did Jesus Exist? Earl Doherty and the Argument to Ahistoricity" by Richard Carrier
- Debunking the Historical Jesus by Dan Barker, Freedom from Religion Foundation
- Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ by R. G. Price, rationalrevolution.net
- Jesus Never Existed.com
- Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth by Greg Kane
5 comments:
But what about Jospehus' account? It's outwith the bible, he wasn't a fan, and yet he makes a mention - two, actually.
The issue isn't whether or not Jesus existed historically, it's the whole 'was he God/ son of God' argument, no?
Anon --
Don't know if you have subscribed or not, if so and you are going to reply you may want to create a fake name and sign the bottom of your posts to separate you from other anon posters.
Anyway the version of the Josephus quote we have are not possibly authentic. This is coming in a book about how Jewish messianic pretenders screwed up Judea, written by someone loyal to Caesar. He never calls anyone the messiah except his boss, Vespasian. He attacks every miracle worker religious figure as a fake. He attacks the Jews for believing in the promise of a divine messiah. Then, right in the middle where he starts discussing the rein of Pilate
3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. No way would Josephus be who he was and write this. Just about every scholar rejects the Josephus references for this reason. If you would like to read a full treatment Josephus On the Rocks.
I don't think it is a "Christ myth" but the truth about Jesus, who was the savior (Messiah/Christ).
I checked out the first website - "The Jesus Puzzle" - not very convincing, the arguments were old and not very meaty (paraphrasing, it had things like: Acts - see how dumb that sounds? Can't be true). If you read this and find my statement by itself unconvincing, you will gain a good appreciation of what it is like reading this website.
I plan on checking out the other links soon.
Thanks for posting these, they are good to think about and also are going to help serve as the basis for a discussion group of arguments for and against the validity of the Bible.
-Bill K
Glad you enjoyed the links.
New book on the Jesus myth
http://www.freepublicitygroup.com/release_sid_martin_author_jesus_myth_.html
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