The cbc (which is like the BBC but for Canada) goes for the political persecution angle on this (which is a pretty high end source)
The church censored its guest book of all the references to the controversy.
Both blogs carry this counter claim about a horn being blown:
I happen to attend this church. The situation with this lady has been happening for a while. She was approached by church officials a few times about how she conducts herself in service. (One example of an issue that they confronted her about is: She was blowing a horn, the kind you take to a hockey game, in the middle of the song service. It was becoming very distracting and irritating to most people in the congregation. The pastor kindly asked her to not do that anymore, and she made a huge fuss. I clearly recall one service where she was blowing the horn, and a child in front of her was crying because it was so loud, she was oblivious to the fact she was making a young child cry).There isn't much on her. And the facts are muddy. I don't have much to say.
_____
(Follow up) 2 years after this was written Deborah told her side of the story below in the comments.
(Follow up#2 written Feb 2010): After about 500 posts in this thread the evidence finally broke. Deborah Boschman was excommunicated for writing a fairly typical letter to her local paper asking for standard municipal actions, which resulted in her get excluded from her church for embarrassing the pastor. We may never know if this was poor judgement or abuse of office but we do know that had proper procedure been followed Boschman would have remained a member of Bethel. If anything the CBC understated the extent to which Pastor Davis' actions were questionable.
928 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 801 – 928 of 928Bdn resident --
You keep missing something that is key.
Deborah's status should be indicated on the roll
Bethel has responsibility to maintain an accurate roll
Indicating it is vague or unknown doesn't solve the problem. Davis has a positive obligation to provide clarity on these issues. Leaving it vague is a dereliction on his part.
he has no responsibility to you to let you know anything.
First, How would you know whether he has an accurate roll or not?
From my understanding of the law, its required for churches to have a Record kept availble in the church office, not that they're required to email them out to any joe off the street who asks.
Secondly, Like deborah herself mentioned she did not take out membership at all, so I imagine that her name would not be kept on the membership roll. she would be considered an adherent, and the law does Not require churches to keep adherent records, public or not. That isn't to say they don't have one, many churches keep records of their adherents as well, but its not required.
Davis has absolutely no obligation to provide YOU with any answers. He has no obligation to speak with the press at all. Like other's mentioned, a lot of this is all based on assumptions, not fact. You may want Davis to answer your emails/questions to him, but he's under no obligation to respond to you or the media.
CD host, I just sent you copies of my evidence.
I sent you photos from the Brandon City Police Station showing you what this neighbor did to ME when I went to pick up my daughter's puppy that this neighbor had trained for us.
This puppy BELONGED to my 9 yr. old daughter.
This is what this neighbor DID TO ME when I went to get back my daughter's puppy.
The By-Law officer attempted to cover up for his part in all of this.
He told the courts that my fence was UNINHABITABLE for a dog.
As my evidence CLEARLY SHOWS, there is NOTHING WRONG with my fence.
There was a break in the fence where the logs were stored but Peaches DID NOT KNOW how to get out from there unless she was coaxed.
Gayle K. told me ALL about how her and this neighbor did what they did.
Attached is her letter to me.
I asked her to look after Peaches for us so that our neighbor WOULD NOT take her away from us.
During this ENTIRE TIME, Gayle K. is backbiting me to this church, to this Pastor, to this neighbor and then to the REST of my neighbors on my street.
AT NO TIME DID I EVER TOUCH MY NEIGHBOR.
NOT EVEN ONCE!
I am the PROFESSIONAL, remember.
I simply went over to my neighbor's to get my 9 yr. old daughter's puppy back.
THESE pictures indicate what happened to ME when I went to get my daughter's puppy back.
Then she has the AUDACITY to charge me because I pulled Peaches OUT of her arms.
IF I had called the BCP, she would or could have been charged for REFUSING to give back my daughter's puppy.
It is because I went there and took Peaches back myself that I ran into trouble.
I DO NOT KNOW what scene or scenario this neighbor STAGED for the Brandon City Police officer.
I also have NO IDEA how long this police officer had been on the force prior to this incident that involved myself.
My lawyer told me that IF I had called him right away that these charges would NEVER have made it to court.
This neighbor SHOULD BE charged for MISCHIEF, LYING TO A POLICE OFFICER, STEALING MY DAUGHTER'S PUPPY, INTERFERENCE, STALKING, HARASSING A BYLAW OFFICER, etc.
The court was told that this neighbor phoned this Bylaw officer EVERY DAY.
This Gayle K. was right there in the thick of things IMMEDIATELY.
I was told by Joyce, the NEW administrator of Bethel, when I called there that they would refer my call to their lawyer.
I was NOT EVER MADE WELCOME to come back to Bethel.
That is an ABSOLUTE LIE.
At EVERY TURN, I was shunned.
In fact, MORE STORIES began to swirl to COVER UP for the fact that I was asked to leave BASED ON MY LETTER TO THE EDITOR of The Brandon Sun.
There were NO PREVIOUS OR PRIOR incidents that I was EVER made aware of at Bethel.
The rumors of this Gayle K. and Julie V.A. FUELED the church and sent things on a runaway train spiralling OUT OF CONTROL.
I COULD NOT find the TWO LETTERS from the Brandon School Division in which they REFUSE to even meet with me and indicate this in their letters.
AGAIN, this teacher LIED to them about myself.
These things ALL happened in SUCCESSION RIGHT AFTER my Letter to the Editor of The Brandon Sun appeared and I received this letter from Bethel.
There was NO CHANCE for me to EXPLAIN, NOTHING and after I was sent that letter by Pastor Mike, I wanted NOTHING MORE to do with a church that would or could do that to a person WITHOUT investigating, getting to the bottom of things, etc.
I DID NOT KNOW that these things about myself were on the internet for two years prior to my responding to them.
ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE FOR ME AT BETHEL right after I wrote that Letter to the Editor.
I am NOT looney at all.
I DO NOT have Asperger's Syndrome.
This is a campaign to DEFAME and DISCREDIT me in order to exonerate themselves for their actions.
I DON'T KNOW WHO TO BLAME FOR THIS.
Should I be blaming the Board of Bethel?
I received the letter from Pastor Mike.
I DON'T KNOW who to hold RESPONSIBLE for these awful actions.
You have to understand that Brandon is a VERY CONSERVATIVE city.
We are also VERY small town minded, etc.
I want the poster who claimed that there were NO FREE MASONS left in Brandon to read this Tuesday and Wednesday's Obituary in our Brandon Sun newspaper.
In it, the relatives of Joseph Haddad, a VERY PROMINENT lawyer within Brandon, acknowledge RIGHT THERE IN THE OBITUARY that he was a MASTER MASON.
His law firm was Meighan, Haddad, etc.
You can subscribe ONLINE to The Brandon Sun newspaper.
It is right there on those two pages for ALL to read and to see.
I actually COULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT I WAS READING and I read it again and again and then the VERY NEXT DAY, it was right there in the newspaper AGAIN.
I feel like Joseph when Potifer's wife LIED about him and he spent ALL of those years in prison.
I am just an average person.
I am PASSIONATE yes and eccentric, I guess, compared to this small town mentality.
I see where Brandon currently is and I see where WE COULD BE and this is WHAT MOTIVATES ME!
A friend of mine up north scanned these images for me, put them on a disk and then attached these to my email.
I just arrived home a short while ago.
I also COULD NOT find that letter from Pastor Mike to me telling me that, "Any further correspondence from me regarding this matter would be deleted and/or ignored."
Pastor Mike indicated to me that HE was responsible UNTO GOD for the ACTIONS of the members of his congregation and THAT IS WHY I took Bethel to court.
I WANTED THEM TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF ALL OF THESE INDIVIDUALS towards myself.
That is also why I took The Brandon School Division to court.
Since WHEN do you lose your job when you are the VICTIM?
So, I was actually VICTIMIZED TWICE by this SAME individual who calls herself a teacher.
Now in The Brandon Sun, the Brandon School Board has acknowledged that some students will need to take 5 different buses in order to get to their educational programs because of the French milieu school.
Some are asking, "Why are we allowing this?"
Some are asking the Mayor to step in and DO SOMETHING about this situation.
THIS is what happens when there is an APATHETIC, UNINVOLVED ELECTORATE.
I believe that we will get WHAT WE TOLERATE.
We, as the majority electorate, HAVE THE POWER to change ALL of these situations but DO WE HAVE THE COLLECTIVE WILL for REAL CHANGE within Brandon?
There are MANY issues here.
Another individual asked IF the Brandon School Board had LOST THEIR MINDS?
OTHER individuals have also experienced GREAT GRIEF AND TRAUMA with their pets also.
Mine is VERY UNFORTUNATELY NOT AN ISOLATED incident.
THIS is why I also believe that Brandon needs REAL CHANGE in leadership in this election.
Otherwise, we are going to experience MORE of this SAME STUFF to come in our future.
I DON'T believe that we have a REAL LEADER in Mayor Dave Burgess.
I believe that he is a yes man and a politically correct man but now it is TIME FOR A REAL LEADER to emerge FOR Brandon.
I will be presenting ALL of these scenarios to this electorate.
There was a contractor who submitted a bid and IT WAS REJECTED by City Hall.
The Police Union is NOT HAPPY with Mayor Dave and City Hall AT ALL.
A judge was quoted in court saying that things appear to be pretty amiss at City Hall.
This city is LARGELY a Conservative voting city.
There are just TOO MANY issues to ignore however, within this next election.
Did Mayor Dave have ANYTHING to do with my being asked to find another church to worship in?
His campaign Mgr. and MOST of his campaign team were from Bethel.
Did he have anything to do with my losing my job at The Brandon School Division?
The Mayor's office and City Hall are in CHARGE of The Brandon School Division, The Animal Pound, The Brandon City Police.
Pastor Mike is a friend of Mayor Dave.
Mayor Dave's secretary told another woman that called in to complain about her puppy that, "Mayor Dave WOULD NEVER OVERRULE A BYLAW OFFICER."
Well, then I suggest that we vote in a Mayor WHO WILL.
Mayor Dave's secretary told me, "Oh your poor neighbors."
Yup, there's REAL PROFESSIONALISM in this town. (Not)
Gossip RULES in this town and UNLESS you can afford to pay $110.00 per hour for a lawyer to defend you, gossip WILL CONTINUE to reign and to rule within Brandon.
CD-Host, there is nothing to miss. Why would she be on the roll if she isn't a member, i believe she even said she wasn't, she went to the church. As to the letter committing him to her being a member, if someone comes to a party with someone else, it doesn't make that person a friend of the person thowing the party. If (and i agree it would be nice to have clear cut if she was or wasn't) she isn't a member, then he has no obligation to answer any questions regarding her leaving. he still should answer about the political positioning he was pushing for in the letter.
Everyone has the right to speak up for their political beliefs, the fact i don't aggree with her regarding her political stance doesn't give me the right to stop her from saying it. However, if she was the only one running for mayor i would step in and run just to keep her out of office. But then that is my personal right. I would like to believe that personal rights under god include freedom of thoughts, speech, and actions as long as they don't interfere or hurt anothers rights. that is my personal belief.
This woman on here who has said something about my looks and looking at me tells you something, etc.
Really?
This one gossip is about 350 lbs., she can hardly walk and her hair is balding.
IF looks tell you a lot about a person, well, what do your looks tell me?
The other gossip looks like a witch, in fact.
She has a mean looking face and she is ALWAYS gossiping and whispering to her other friend, Mrs. G.
They are a lovely group; the three of them.
Is Bethel in denial about these women and what they are capable of or have done?
Why are they so TOLERANT of these three women when they have a HISTORY with this church and so INTOLERANT of myself when ALL I did was write a Letter to the Editor?
I am NOT nor have I EVER been a gossip or a troublemaker at this church.
I blew a hockey horn once.
Big whoopie doo!
IF I would have had a shofar, I would have blown that.
IF you live in Brandon LONG ENOUGH, you want to blow, like, THREE hockey horns!
Brandon COULD BE so MUCH MORE dynamic, vibrant and pulsating than it currently is.
I believe that there are MANY individuals holding us BACK from TAKING OFF and becoming what we could become within this city.
I am for moving FORWARD in EVERY way within this city.
I am for being PROGRESSIVE.
Their party name has Progressive in it; The Progressive Conservative Party but I see NONE of this progression within Brandon under this current leadership.
This is my belief anyway.
You also have to know that this neighbor showed this Gayle K. and my neighbors bruises that I NEVER gave her.
I suspect that she gave HERSELF these bruises because I NEVER TOUCHED THIS MENTALLY UNSTABLE WOMAN ONCE, EVER!
THIS is why I have been SO ANGRY, FRUSTRATED and SO INCREDIBLY ADAMANT!
NONE of what this neighbor claimed and told the BCP EVER occurred.
WHAT KIND of woman who calls herself a Christian and a SO-CALLED friend of mine COULD BE INVOLVED in this with a neighbor?
THIS is the MOST SURREAL SITUATION that I have EVER found myself in.
HOW does one handle this?
WHAT in the name of God do you do?
GOD KNOWS that what I am stating on this post is the truth?
HOW DO I GET EVERYONE ELSE TO SEE THIS AND TO KNOW THIS?
WHEN I stand before God and ALL is revealed, you will see EXACTLY what I have stated here.
HOW do I convince people that THIS is INDEED what occurred here?
ALL of this other nonsense is being perpetuated by these GOSSIPS to COVER UP for their own actions and involvement in this.
HOW do I convince people that what I am stating here is in fact the TRUTH when these other women have come together and LIED about me?
HOW do I do this?
They are on here lying and yet saying that they are telling the truth?
THEY ARE NOT.
HOW do I show people that I am?
I am TRYING EVERYTHING to show people the truth and yet ALL of these other individuals are AGAINST myself?
Have you EVER been in a situation such as this yourself before?
This is INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING!
GOD KNOWS and HE KNOWS MY HEART, my intentions, my actions, etc. and they ARE as I have stated on here.
HOW do I convince everyone else?
I have been trying to prove these truths again and again and again and yet this other small group constantly DENIES these truths.
I DON'T THINK that I should have to wait until I am standing before God to PROVE that what I am saying is in fact the truth.
How long did it take for the truth to be revealed in Joseph's situation?
It took YEARS for him to be vindicated.
It is VERY HURTFUL and DEFAMING to be accused of things that you KNOW that you had NO PART OF.
HOW DO YOU PROVE THAT YOU HAD NO PART IN THIS?
HOW DO YOU VINDICATE YOURSELF when there is a group that WANTS to slander you, label you and DOES NOT WANT the truth to be exposed?
WHAT DO YOU DO THEN?
I wonder WHY God doesn't just step in and REVEAL TO EVERYONE the truth and what REALLY occurred in my situation?
WHY is HE ALLOWING ME TO GO THROUGH THIS TORTURE?
To strengthen me? To prepare me? For what? For His greater purposes or for His glory?
This is HORRIBLE to be accused of such HORRIBLE SLANDER AND NONSENSE.
What do you do when a GROUP chooses to lie about you?
What do you do then?
How do you convince others that you are telling the truth when there is a group out there hell bent on defaming you?
Bdn. resident, I called the neighbor as did my friend, Pearl S., and this neighbor REFUSED to even return my call.
She told Pearl S. that she was NOT giving Peaches back to us; that this just DID NOT work out for her the way that she had hoped it would.
I will have to get Pearl to come on here to testify to this.
We probably SHOULD have gone to the court house then.
WHERE are you getting your MISINFORMATION from?
WHO is telling you these lies?
We asked ourselves WHY we should have to pay for our puppy when this neighbor STOLE IT FROM OUR YARD and Gayle K. even attested to this when she also thought that we were getting our Peaches back.
She told me ALL about how they achieved and accomplished this.
I was waiting to be paid in order to pay for this puppy.
I am a single parent of THREE children.
My money is accounted for with sports programs for my children, etc.
This is another UNTRUTH Bdn. resident.
This neighbor STOLE our puppy.
Gayle K., the member from Bethel, ADMITTED TO ME AND TOLD ME ALL ABOUT HOW THEY DID THIS when she thought that we were getting our Peaches back.
When you go to Google Earth and you google 513-14th Street, you can see my daughter's Peaches in our neighbor's backyard.
This neighbor lives DIRECTLY across the street from us.
HOW could they do this to us and to my daughter AFTER ALL of the trouble we went through with this neighbor and the HISTORY between us over my daughter's puppy?
THIS act in itself is INHUMANE and TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE to a 9 yr. old child who was SO EXCITED to get this puppy from her daddy.
The Bylaw officer told the courts that our fence was UNINHABITABLE for a dog.
This is on tape at the courthouse.
Peaches was in our yard the entire week.
This neighbor SAW my mother, my son, daughter, and another family member over there attending to our puppy throughout the day.
This neighbor phoned and told the Bylaw officer that Peaches was being neglected.
THIS IS ANOTHER LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL from this neighbor.
The Bylaw officer told the courts that this woman called him EVERY DAY.
These women WATCHED our home VERY CLOSELY.
This is MISCHIEF.
Peaches was TAKEN out of our yard on Friday by this neighbor.
IF my fence was as UNINHABITABLE as the Bylaw officer told the court that it was, and that the pictures of my yard disprove, then WHY did Peaches not escape on Monday?
Peaches escaped because SHE WAS REMOVED FROM OUR YARD by this neighbor.
Gayle K. told me ALL ABOUT HOW THIS NEIGHBOR BROUGHT PEACHES OVER TO HER HOUSE AND HOW TOGETHER THEY PHONED THE ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICER.
This Gayle K. from Bethel is RIGHT IN THE THICK OR MIDDLE OF THIS and she was the ENTIRE TIME.
I was UNAWARE of any of this but when I found out I REMOVED Peaches from her care.
THAT IS WHEN she teamed up with my neighbor, HARD CORE, to take Peaches away from us.
She is BEST FRIENDS with this other gossip from Bethel, Julie V.A. who told Pastor Mike a LIE in the first place that got that ball rolling over there at Bethel.
Then there was the teacher and this house and her bullying me and OF COURSE EVERYONE BLAMED ME.
IT ALL FIT TOGETHER SO CONVENIENTLY FOR EVERYONE.
Yup, blame me for the whole works when I had NOTHING to do with ANY of it.
The pictures of my basement have been temporarily lost by the person who took them.
Hopefully, in the days ahead, we can get those on here also.
The basement of this home is a COMPLETE DISASTER.
The sewer pipe needs to be replaced BADLY, the foundation, you name it.
The pictures of my basement show how things were COVERED UP and WHAT was in fact hidden.
I was told that THIS is why the house was sold privately because a real estate agent WOULD NOT sell this home for this price with ALL of the repairs that were needed in the basement.
I DO NOT have $50,000 to replace or fix the foundation, replace the sewer pipe, etc.
I CANNOT teach in my home town.
I am a single parent of three children, 2 of whom are still dependent upon me.
My 70 something year old mother is currently looking after my children for me so that I can obtain employment within my profession outside of Brandon.
SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG with this scenario in itself.
I WAS THE ONE VIOLATED and I AM THE ONE WHO IS NOT ALLOWED TO TEACH here, after 10 yrs. of successful employment with the BSD.
This conniving and manipulative teacher sought out the teacher from Bethel who just HAPPENED to be the President of the BTA and of course, I guess she believed her, because it ALL FIT with everything else that was going on at the time.
This teacher also had to LIE to this BSD, I'm thinking.
They REFUSED to hire me back after I initially went there to speak to someone about this situation with my house and the calculated UNFAIRNESS of it all.
AGAIN, WHO was I to go to?
I thought that speaking to someone at Human Resources was the proper thing to do.
HOW could I lose my substitute teaching job over this when I am the victim YET AGAIN?
WHO ELSE from this church called the BSD?
We saw how this D.F. already acknowledged on this post that she did.
WHO ELSE did?
You can affect my employment after I write a Letter to the Editor also?
My POOR CHILDREN have been so HORRIBLY VICTIMIZED throughout ALL of this.
They DON'T even have their mother with them through the week.
FIRST, your puppy is taken away from you and then your mother also.
MY CHILDREN STOOD OUTSIDE ON OUR VERANDA AND WATCHED ME AS I WENT OVER TO THIS NEIGHBOR'S TO GET MY 9 yr. old DAUGHTER'S PUPPY BACK.
THEY SAW THIS ENTIRE THING GO DOWN but the Police Officer told me that they were TOO YOUNG to be used as witnesses on my behalf.
The second time when I went to get Peaches back AFTER THEY TOOK HER AGAIN, this neighbor charged me again with assault and another neighbor JUST HAPPENED to be walking down the alley and saw that I did NOTHING.
She saw what they did to me and THANK GOD FOR HER.
I call her my GUARDIAN ANGEL.
THIS is the REAL Brandon here.
MANY OTHERS have told me their neighbor stories also and I am NOT ALONE here.
Our current Mayor has DONE NOTHING about another woman, Colleen, I believe her name is, WHO IS FRIENDS with these other three from Bethel, who REPEATEDLY HARASSES her neighbors with phone calls to the BCP about their dogs, noise, you name it.
One of these neighbors has now taken this Colleen woman to court to charge her with mischief.
I have tried to reach out to Colleen. I DON'T KNOW what the problem is there.
Another woman from Bethel, Rhonda V. was just charged with making bomb threats to the Brandon Regional Health Authority on TWO separate occasions.
THIS was documented in The Brandon Sun in Thursday or Friday's paper.
MANY of us prayed over this women when I attended Bethel.
Rhonda has mental health issues however.
Please also go to Canadian Human Rights Tribunal and B. Joan Yeary, to find out what ELSE happened at CKX television here in Brandon.
It is ALL on there.
I am just trying to indicate and show that some of the nonsense that is Brandon has been going on for SOME TIME now within our city.
My incident is unfortunately NOT isolated and/or alone.
Bethel is NOT however involved in the CKX, behind the scenes, fiasco.
I'm just trying to demonstrate that OTHERS have also been through SOME THINGS while living and working within this city.
There APPEARS to be a pattern here of HIDING, COVERING UP and PREVENTING the truth from making the light of day within this city.
I'm on here to EXPOSE the TRUTH in ALL AREAS and if it is broken in a church or wherever, it NEEDS TO BE FIXED.
I KNOW for a fact that Pastor Mike wanted me to KEEP QUIET on the issues regarding the Administrator of Bethel's husband.
I wanted ACCOUNTABILITY and he just wanted me to FORGIVE them, no questions asked.
I am NOT going to cover up for anyone however, in ANY profession, institution, etc.
Let's tell the truth, once and for all, within this city and then let's heal, recover and then move forward STRONGER.
In today's Brandon Sun, Saturday, March 27, 2010, there is an open letter, Help sought from Allan in milieu disruptions, written by a VERY DISGRUNTLED parent, Vanessa Hamilton.
In this letter, she reiterates ALL of those points that I previously made on this post.
Here is her VERY GOOD letter:
An open letter to Education Minister Nancy Allan:
I wanted to bring to your attention a series of events that is currently unfolding within the Brandon School Division. I can only assume you are unaware of what is transpiring by the lack of intervention from the provincial government.
The following describes the situation well: "...you may be aware or have children affected by the Brandon school board's decision to place a single-track French immersion program at Harrison. What you may or may not realize is the impact this has on hundreds of children in the Brandon School Division.
The children at Harrison are being repatriated to Green Acres or George Fitton, which are both elementary schools. These schools require extensive renovations in order for them to accommodate middle-year students-washrooms, lockers, gym, etc. to name a few. Obviously there is not funding for this right away therefore the kids are going to be bused to various other schools in the Brandon School Division. Our kids have the potential of attending FIVE different schools during the week next year-their 'home' school, band, shop/home ec, gym and intramural/extracurricular sports."
We questioned what part of the curriculum the students would lose to allow for all this transportation time but were "reassured" they would be transported during recess and lunch breaks! This is NOT acceptable for ANY student, but our pleas to the school division have fallen on deaf ears. One board member described this as "the least disruptive measure"-the least disruptive measure is now affecting seven schools, HUNDREDS of children and untold dollars!
It is APPALLING that recess and lunch will be spent on the bus. As a healthy living facilitator, I CAN NOT SUPPORT THIS. The rates of obesity and incidents of chronic disease such as Type 2 diabetes are increasing. The decrease of activity is a step BACKWARDS. As a mother with children attending Green Acres school in Grades 2 and 4, I WILL NOT SUPPORT THIS. Their free time will be lost. Their basic human rights will be taken away.
I WILL NOT SUPPORT a government party that would allow such a severe disruption to occur. I IMPLORE YOU, AS OUR MINISTER OF EDUCATION, TO INVESTIGATE THIS TRULY OUTRAGEOUS SITUATION AND TO ACT SWIFTLY TO PREVENT THIS GREAT DISSERVICE TO OUR CHILDREN.
Please feel free to contact me to discuss the matter further.
Vanessa Hamilton- Brandon
BRAVO, VANESSA HAMILTON!
Some of us have been saying this ALL ALONG but now it has to come from a parent themselves.
BRAVO, VANESSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deborah --
You sent me a lot of materials related to the dog issue. And while I agree you are being attacked on that, AFAICT it was at best very tangential to the church discipline issue. Can you tie this in a little better before I post these materials?
Bdn Resident --
CD-Host, there is nothing to miss. Why would she be on the roll if she isn't a member, i believe she even said she wasn't, she went to the church.
I agree that Deborah has contended she was never a member. You will see earlier discussion on this. But Davis publicly declared she was a member. Boschman in a real trial would be entitled to challenge Davis' assertion of her membership. Davis in an appeal would certainly be entitled to indicate he was mistaken about her being a member.
But if her name is not on the roll that opens up the issue of why Davis thought she was one. This is a simple matter of fact. Except that of course Davis doesn't actually maintain a public roll. Another dereliction that has nothing to do with Boschman.
The letter that this Gayle K., a member of Bethel, gave me, which I forwarded to you, states how she is going down to the Police Station to cancel her first hand witness account regarding the VERY INAPPROPRIATE comments and harassment by these neighbors, while one of them was intoxicated, towards my 9 yr. old daughter, while she was out walking her puppy.
She indicates in this letter how she is going to tell the judge certain things.
She also asks me to submit $70.60 to her when another bill clearly indicates that my neighbor had paid for this bill, for treatment of Peaches that we NEVER authorized.
This SAME woman is involved via her false testimony, false witness, false statements, false first hand account to this church.
She is fully involved in each of these situations that involve myself, with this church, with this Pastor, with my daughter's puppy and with my neighbors.
Every step of the way, this woman is involved in each circumstance that also involves myself.
The things that I have sent to you, prove what I have said to be true and show her implication and her involvement, as a member of Bethel, in each of them.
They also prove that some of her statements to this church and to the police are false.
CD-Host, Sorry i missed in the blog where davis proclaimed her as a member. As you say he did i will go on that and agree that if it was a mistake on his part to say such without maintaining a proper public role, then he should be dealt with regarding that failure in administration. But my arguement regarding bethel or any of the members conspiring against deborah still says the same. While i don't for a second believe that the women (2 or 3 or however many) may have gotten together to discuss deborah's attacks on others, i don't see any actual proof that they organized a harrasement scandal that she says. The fact still remains that any church is not financially or morrally responsible if someone buys a house that is worth less than the selling price. The teaching problem is still due to her slandering the other person regarding the other house at her teaching job in brandon in an unprofessional manner, and when approached about this, she then made comments about the person and system she was working for. As a person in authority over others, an employee must be responsible for maintaining a professional attitude at all times. I have released employees for this kind of unprofessionalism before and hoped that they would understand at some point the reasons i explained why. You can't be in a position of professionalism more than a teacher as far as i am concerned.
But what would the BSD put down as a reason for not hiring her, would it hurt her chances of ever teaching anywhere if it was in her record of employment of unprofessionalism and such. It is my opinion that they didn't crush her as she puts, but gave her an out to continue teaching somewhere else.
Deborah, i know for a fact that when you won the court case for the dog that it took you months before you went to get the dog, and didn't have the court aggreed price when you went. You broke the aggrement of the court documents, so there is no arguement to be made there. It is very cut and dry. You can argue all you want that you were waiting for a check from work, but how many checks went by and you never payed the agreed upon price. You are responsible for not picking up the dog as agreed upon by the signed court documents.
I understand you have another dog now, how many times have you had to pay to get the dog from the pound because it got out? You made a comment about how the first dog got out on a friday, not the monday, and questioned why. That is kind of like asking why did it rain on wed instead of sunday. That is just how it happenned, like a million other things that happen every day. You are looking for conspiracy in everything that happens in your life that doesn't go good for you. Welcome to the human race and the life we live. If everything was perfect than we would call it paradise instead of earth.
As to the new school thing going on, i will have to research it further before i am willing to comment on it.
bdn resident --
"I have some obligations for the actions of our congregation before the lord" (directed at Deborah). As for the rest, I mostly agree. The real point of debate is what you just conceded that Davis has failed to fulfill his duty. Which of course leads serious suspicion to the excommunication having had no process....
Bdn. resident, again I will reiterate that your statements are NOT TRUE AT ALL.
I DON'T KNOW where you are getting your information from, but your statements are FALSE.
My friend will come on here and verify what I have said.
It is NOT ACCEPTABLE as a teacher to cheat someone, to come over to their home and pressure them to sign papers for the sale of their own home to them.
There is a lawyer to go to for legal matters such as this.
My father was dying and I was very distracted and stupid. That I do admit to.
This teacher did MANY things to me at the school where I always substituted before I finally reacted towards her.
I DON'T KNOW where your erroneous information is coming from.
She did MANY things to provoke me.
Is that acceptable? No, I don't believe that it is.
I was NEVER given another chance after I met with the Superintendent and she told the Human Resources Director to allow me to substitute teach again.
I was told by the Superintendent of the BSD that if I ever went to the media about this that I WOULD NEVER TEACH IN THE BRANDON SCHOOL DIVISION again.
Yes, my daughter's new dog has been let out several times by someone.
There is NOWHERE for this dog to get out of the fence except if someone opens the gate, which we believe has happened, yes.
We DON'T have cameras and so we don't know HOW our dog could have gotten out.
Our fence is VERY STABLE and secure.
NO, we went to get our dog and this neighbor REFUSED to give her back to us and it was NOT after several months.
We SHOULD HAVE contacted the courts immediately.
I DON'T KNOW where you are getting your information from, but your statements are not correct.
They are false.
Other pet owners within Brandon will testify to a system that is VERY FLAWED.
They have also had their pets taken away from them.
There are SEVERAL of these individuals within Brandon which I will call forward during this campaign and their stories are VERY SIMILAR to my own.
I have a written letter from Gayle K., from Bethel, linking her to my daughter's puppy, plus her own verbal testimony to myself about how this neighbor brought Peaches over to her house and how together they called the Animal Pound.
I have the pictures of our totally fenced property.
I have the testimony from my friend Pearl who called this neighbor to get Peaches back and was told by this neighbor that we couldn't have her back.
I also called and left a message with this neighbor telling her HOW IMPORTANT THIS PET WAS TO MY DAUGHTER, AS DID MY FRIEND.
I have the witness of several family members who can attest to the ABSOLUTE SURREAL NONSENSE that went on in this instance regarding our neighbors and our puppy and the CONSTANT HARASSMENT of us by these women.
My children were with me at the Brandon Shopper's Mall when this teacher and her husband turned around and laughed at us and kept looking at us and laughing at us and would NOT leave us alone.
I ended up taking my children and leaving the Halloween lineup at the Brandon Shopper's Mall.
My children were both in tears now.
I should have reported this incident to The Brandon School Division, which I did not.
This teacher had provoked me before and another teacher from the same school had to also speak to her about her actions as he had trouble with her also.
The Human Resources Director of the BSD was in the same room when the Superintendent made the comments to myself that she made.
After that, they REFUSED to hire me any longer and they REFUSED to meet with me to explain these actions after the Superintendent had specifically told the Human Resources Director to REINSTATE my Substitute teaching privileges.
Some time after this, the Human Resources Director left the BSD and they have NOT reinstated my Substitute teaching privileges since.
At one point, they even denied receiving documentation from me regarding my Substitute teaching and then the person from the BSD who admitted to me that she remembered receiving this from me personally, was immediately replaced.
I have papers from the Law Society of Manitoba after I went to a lawyer to tell him that this teacher cheated me and that I am NOT signing these final papers in his office.
I SHOULD HAVE thrown this teacher OUT of my home.
You DON'T come to my home and pressure me to sign papers for the sale of my home to you IF you are on the up and up.
If you are trying to pull a fast one, you do that, which is what was done.
I wanted $3,000.00 more for my home than I received.
I was already basically giving it away.
I have the document from the Land Titles office which shows that they made over $50,000.00 off of the re-sale of my home.
I DIDN'T even get out of this house what I paid for it and I had put in brand new air conditioning, a brand new furnace, the shed and siding were brand new, etc.
I am at fault for allowing these people to write up the papers for the sale of my home to them.
I am at fault for being SO STUPID to sign papers that I DID NOT read.
I am at fault for being preoccupied with the condition of my ailing and VERY SICK father.
This teacher was pressuring me and I feel that this was duress.
If this teacher REALLY believed that she did NOTHING wrong and that she did not get away with anything, then why did she continue to harass me at the school where we both taught together?
Why did this teacher and her husband do these things in front of my children, that my children witnessed for themselves and can attest to?
Getting back to my daughter's new puppy; both times I indicated to the Animal Pound that I believed that someone had let my daughter's new puppy OUT of our yard.
We were going to call the BCP but thought that there was probably no point in doing this.
I don't have cameras around my property.
Bdn. resident, I was NEVER approached by anyone other than the Superintendent who asked to speak with me before I substituted again.
The Human Resources Director had been VERY unprofessional and had repeated what I shared with her PRIVATELY to at least one school that I know of.
This teacher that I had the dispute with was VERY unprofessional to me at the school where we both taught together and it was her actions towards me in the staff room one afternoon, that prompted my call to the Human Resources Dept., in the first place, to ask the Human Resources Director whom I should speak to about this incident.
I briefly talked to this Director of Human Resources over the telephone and when I asked to meet with her in person, the very next day, she DENIED and REFUSED me this opportunity.
This other teacher had gotten to her first and told some lies to her Principal. She is employed full time with the BSD and she had the union and the backing from the President of the union, from Bethel, behind her.
They had ALREADY met with the Director of Human Resources before I was able to meet with her.
Just being DENIED the opportunity to present my case is another travesty in a long list of travesties.
Here again, I was DENIED this basic Human Right to be heard.
You appear to be in the know but you are not.
ALL of these events happened in succession, one right after the other, after my Letter to the Editor appeared in the Brandon Sun.
As I stated previously, ALL hell broke loose for me after this letter appeared in the paper.
Individuals within Bethel appear to have had their feathers ruffled by my letter, a lie was told to Pastor Mike by this Julie V.A. and the wildfire just continued from there.
I TOTALLY RESENT and I WILL NOT TOLERATE your negative attitude towards myself.
I AM A PROFESSIONAL person and I ALWAYS have been.
I have been a teacher for 24 yrs. now.
I had NO PROBLEM PREVIOUSLY and I was employed with the BSD for ten years prior to this incident.
I DO NOT RESPECT this other woman who calls herself a teacher and I guess that the feeling is mutual.
There are MANY THINGS that have transpired within the BSD that other teachers have experienced also.
There is A LOT that you are not privy to.
Teachers have learned to NOT speak up because they KNOW that their jobs could and would be in danger IF they do or else they are transferred to another school as we have seen in the past.
THIS is done to teach teachers a lesson for being TOO vocal.
This was done to a VERY GOOD sports coach from Crocus Plains High School.
I DID NOT want to play their game.
I was honest with them and now I am paying the price for that honesty.
HOW could I be in trouble when I went to them in the first place seeking help to SOLVE a problem?
The BSD DOES NOT want to acknowledge any internal problems within its organization.
They are also in denial.
Some teachers say privately that the BSD is run like a dictatorship.
The way that this milieu school proposal was handled, appears by many, to indicate that it is.
A business owner at Riding Mountain National Park received a letter from Parks Canada that his taxes on his restaurant business in the Park will go up 1000% in the next 10 years!
That is a 100% tax increase per year.
Another business owner received a letter saying his taxes are to be increased by 600% over a 10 year period.
Cottage owners at Clear Lake also received letters indicating that their taxes are also going up.
Some business owners said they feel like the Federal Govt. is trying to run them out of the Park.
I emailed The Brandon Sun tonight and I asked them to investigate this situation IMMEDIATELY.
I am FOR the people and I will do WHATEVER I CAN to help the people.
These business owners also told me that Parks Canada employs MANY employees who get paid ASTRONOMICAL WAGES to basically do nothing, they said.
They said that this has to STOP now.
They said that we deserve BANG for our buck.
They are furious at the Park.
They told me that one Federal employee gets paid over $70,000 of our tax dollars and his job is to look after 7 houses; hey if that's true, that's $10,000.00 per house.
I asked The Brandon Sun to investigate this situation, on behalf of these Riding Mountain National Park business men and cottage owners, IMMEDIATELY.
Deborah, the bottom line is you signed the papers. For crying out loud, YOU SIGNED THE PAPERS! It doesn't matter why, it doesn't matter who made you. Unless they held a gun to your head it doesn't matter. You signed legal documents. The went on a spree of verbal degradation regarding the other teacher and were punished for being unprofessional. I don't care if you keep calling me a liar, I know what happenned. And who cares what they made after they resold the house, that is why most people buy them, to turn them over and resell. They are not responsible to you for making a profit on a business deal.
So you have left your gate open at times and had your dog get out. So this couldn't happen before then with your first dog or whichever you say was let loose intentionally?
I know about the sports coach, you definately don't have all the details and that situation has nothing to do with yours, so i won't even bring that to a conversation.
It is like you want to see yourself as a person being persecuted from all sides. I don't understand this, you must see that the obsession you have is clouding your judgement on these issues. The court case that you actually did win is now being overshadowed by your refusal to see that you had won, then gave up that right when you didn't follow the agreed upon verdict. Reading this blog and your responses, i am pretty sure that at this point you actually have convinced yourself that it happenned that way. Perhaps you have forgotten key points, or just plain can't remember. Either way, i think you need to speak to someone who may clear up some memory blocks you may have.
CD-Host, i agree he needs to clear the mystery up and dispell the confusion of whether Deborah was a member, was excummunicated, or was just a mistake on his part. But it should be cleared up one way or the other, then dealt with accordingly. I just don't see this happenning until the conspiracy and harrassement situations are let go by Deborah. Even if such a thing had happenned, you could never prove such anyway. So it should be a moot issue and forgiven as a good christian should. Can't see that happenning, but oh well, i said it.
Bdn Resident --
CD-Host, i agree he needs to clear the mystery up and dispell the confusion of whether Deborah was a member, was excummunicated, or was just a mistake on his part. But it should be cleared up one way or the other, then dealt with accordingly. I just don't see this happenning until the conspiracy and harrassement situations are let go by Deborah. Even if such a thing had happenned, you could never prove such anyway. So it should be a moot issue and forgiven as a good christian should. Can't see that happenning, but oh well, i said it.
My guess is that these abuses are not specific to Deborah. Generally abusive churches have abuse problems with many many people. There are a few alternatives:
a) Davis is unclear about this stuff because he essentially never has to do it. This was his first excommunication and he botched it up badly due to inexperience.
b) Bethel is an abusive church and Deborah is the tip of the iceberg. Her coming forward makes it possible for other people who suffered spiritual abuse at Davis' hands to come forward.
I don't know whether (a) or (b) is true. We've had people from Bethel come in on both sides. Most of Davis' defenders however have acted in a manner consistent with (b) not with (a). Now that may be because they really don't like Deborah Boschman and she makes them irrational. But then you combine that with Davis' actions, and again that hints at (b).
In the end given just the limited evidence we have, I'm going to have to conclude that (b) is the more likely scenario. Pretty simply non abusive churches are very concerned about credible allegations of misconduct. Abusive churches demonize leavers. Which is more consistent with what's been going on here?
Is there a reason why no posts from myself (and i'm guessing tt since i haven't seen posts by them for the past few days as well) are not being posted?
This is D.F., i'm posting under anonymous since it won't seem to let me post at all any other way.
And Irrational? I didn't lay claim to being nice in what i write on here, but that hardly means i'm irrational. Just greatly annoyed and upset by the lies being told.
You keep posting these situations as being either A or B (or other ways of comparing them) but trying to make Davis out as the bad guy in either one. That doesn't speak of being unbias to me. You seem to have decided that he'll be guilty of whatever regardless of the proof or lack of.
Anon (DF) --
There were 2 posts stuck in moderation one from DF one from Deborah. So I don't have whatever posts you are talking about unless you meant the one. I haven't blocked anything on this thread in quite a while.
As far as Davis being a bad guy we've talked enough about Davis public obligations that he has failed to fulfill. You keep up with the "he doesn't have to ABC" which is fine for you to believe but doesn't change the fact he does have these public obligations he has failed to meet.
Davis has a weak case, sorry DF while I think you've argued his defense passionately in the end far too many of your key facts have been disproven. Deborah has presented solid evidence which while not proving everything do move her very close to meeting a preponderance of evidence. I don't think it is bias to draw a tentative conclusion.
Is it possible that Davis did nothing wrong? I'm starting to fail to see any scenarios consistent with the facts that we have which don't involve wrongdoing by him. So unless he has good evidence which contradicts Deborah's case then the only things lacking are clarity of exactly which types of misconduct Davis engaged in.
Stop arguing that there isn't enough evidence and start producing the evidence. Where is Davis roll? What does it say next to Boschman's name? If Boschman was validly excommunicated who was part of the session that did so? If PAOC oversaw this case then who commented and what did they write? Did she transfer is so to where?
Unfortunately what you've called the "Facts" in this case are assumptions on your parts, or interpretations slanted to get what you want in the end. There is no fact that he has an obligation regarding the member roll even. We can argue it back and forth as much as you want, it doesn't make your assumptions as to his obligations correct.
Like i commented on in one of my previous posts (that didn't get posted till today)
"From my understanding of the law, its required for churches to have a Record kept availble in the church office, not that they're required to email them out to any joe off the street who asks.
Secondly, Like deborah herself mentioned she did not take out membership at all, so I imagine that her name would not be kept on the membership roll. she would be considered an adherent, and the law does Not require churches to keep adherent records, public or not. That isn't to say they don't have one, many churches keep records of their adherents as well, but its not required."
You keep claiming to facts about this case, but many of these so called "facts" are mere assumptions on your part. All that has been proven in all of this is the existance of a letter that no one disputed existed.
DF --
This is one of the reasons I don't consider your defense to be valid. You had made an argument for a long time that Deborah was not a member. Deborah's letter proved that Davis considered her a member. Davis does not have obligations regarding non members, he does regarding members. Having publicly declared her a member in the newspaper he does have those obligations.
And yes people denied that letter. Read back you were one of the people who argued she was excommunicated / kicked out of church for assault or threatening a daycare worker while the letter proved not for forming a PAC. You keep accusing me of making assumptions I suggest you read your own materials over the last 6 mo.
I have a verbal account from another woman who told me that she was "treated horribly by Pastor Mike and Bethel."
So, this proves that my experience with Bethel is NOT an isolated case.
This courts heard how this gossip from Bethel APPROACHED my neighbor when I had asked her to look after Peaches for us so that our neighbor would NOT take her away from us.
This woman was CONSTANTLY gossiping about myself, which I was NOT even aware of.
She was running to Pastor Mike and others within Bethel continually.
WHY was this encouraged and allowed?
This woman then even wrote a Letter to the Editor against me in The Brandon Sun newspaper.
This woman had come and BARGED INTO my life.
Bethel had had MANY PROBLEMS with these women in the past.
They COULD NOT EFFECTIVELY DISCIPLINE these women?
They could come down hard however, on myself, for writing a Letter to the Editor which expressed my personal and private opinion?
At NO TIME does this letter indicate nor did ANYONE really know that I attended Bethel except for Bethel members themselves.
Like I said previously, I believe that something is FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG at Bethel and needs to be addressed and fixed IMMEDIATELY.
Yes, I can forgive and move on but I will sure PUT UP A GOOD FIGHT AND A GOOD ARGUMENT in my defense, that's for sure.
I'm NOT going to allow myself to be lied about, maligned and go down like a lame duck here.
The church is SUPPOSE to be the BRIDE OF CHRIST.
The church needs to work things out within itself in order to get ready and BE PREPARED for the return of Christ.
Are our churches imperfect? Could they improve, change, grow up and mature?
Yes, I believe that they could.
Do many of our churches currently LOOK like the Bride of Christ?
I'll let everyone think about that statement for themselves.
If Bethel issued me a public apology or held a Healing/Restorative Service for ALL people that they may have offended and/or hurt in the past, and IF THEY GENUINELY MEANT IT, and apologized to each of us for their part in this, I would do the same and then this thing would probably be over for me.
I still would want NOTHING FURTHER TO DO with these three gossips, EVER, but THIS would be a GREAT START in the healing process for myself, for others and I think for many people within Brandon.
Is anyone out there willing to admit that they MIGHT have made a mistake, that they jumped the gun here or that they might have been WRONG in their erroneous assessment of things here?
IF there is anyone like that from Bethel out there, then PLEASE COME FORWARD.
I think that MOST of Brandon would be relieved IF Bethel MADE IT RIGHT with the individuals that they have hurt and/or offended in the past.
I think that this act in itself would RESTORE BETHEL, Pastor Mike, this Board and others BACK into their place of RESPECT within this community, IF this were to occur.
Anyone can make a mistake, just like Tiger Woods and/or any one of us humans can and do, but are you BIG ENOUGH to admit to your mistake, apologize for it and then ask the community for forgiveness and then MOVE ON from this?
The ball is now in Bethel's court on this one.
I also want to say that IF I received this public apology, I would NOT return to Bethel full time.
I would just attend church there in the evenings and/or for special occasions.
I would also be more QUIET than I was in the past regarding my worship there.
I was NOT aware that this caused ANGST for some of the members there and so I would be MINDFUL of that and respect that.
So, there you have it.
Deborah --
So just to be crystal clear. You were told by Davis you could not attend under even these limited circumstances?
Deborah --
I have a verbal account from another woman who told me that she was "treated horribly by Pastor Mike and Bethel."
Would she be willing to go into specifics? Obviously if we start to establish a pattern of abuse that changes the whole "isolated incident" into more of a pattern consistent with the due process failures that I've been writing about.
CD host: No, I was never told verbally by Pastor Mike that I could not attend church there.
He WOULD NOT speak to me directly after this incident.
There was just silence and himming and hawing when I phoned Pastor Mike's house.
I was told verbally by Pastor Mike's wife Cathy that the church was told that they could not refuse to allow someone to attend church there.
That was it.
The other woman who was also VERY DEEPLY hurt by Pastor Mike and Bethel said that she STILL has BIG scars from this incident.
She DID NOT want to elaborate on her story with me because she said that it was still just TOO RAW and TOO PAINFUL for her to go into.
She said that she WON'T go anywhere where she knows Pastor Mike will be because it just HURTS HER TOO MUCH.
She said that she was also ACCUSED OF THINGS THAT SHE DIDN'T DO AND THAT SHE HAD NO PART OF.
So that part is a pattern that I also experienced.
Her incident had something to do with someone putting LIES about her on the internet.
Again, this is ALSO what happened to myself.
She PROFUSELY DISPUTED these FALSE allegations about herself but they fell on deaf ears, I guess, with Pastor Mike and Bethel.
This is all she was willing to divulge to me.
She just told me that she had heard about me and my incident from Pastor Mike himself.
He told her this directly but she DIDN'T WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANY FURTHER when she realized that I was the woman that she had been told about.
She just told me to FORGIVE HIM and give it to God.
She told me that this is what she was TRYING VERY HARD to do.
I STILL believe that God USES PEOPLE however, to accomplish HIS WILL ON EARTH as it is in Heaven.
That is my belief anyway.
The part of the story that is the SAME for both of us are FALSE ALLEGATIONS, lies on the internet, rebuke, banishment, scorn, rumors, gossip, slander, open hostility, etc.
Bdn. resident, yes, you are right that I SHOULD NOT have signed those papers.
You are dead on.
I also DON'T THINK that it is right for a teacher WHO IS SUPPOSE to be a professional to come into someone's home and PRESSURE them to sign these papers either.
Then when I went to my lawyer, he also said to me, "If you don't sign these papers, you'll have to get yourself another lawyer."
He asked me IF there was a man that he could deal with. (Male chauvinist jerk.)
I had NO help from anyone, trying to get resolution in this matter.
NEITHER of us knew that the other was a teacher until we met up at the school where I ALWAYS SUBSTITUTE TAUGHT for MANY YEARS previously and where she was now employed full time.
Re: My daughter's puppy. This neighbor REFUSED to give Peaches back to us.
Yes, we should have both run IMMEDIATELY to the courthouse yet again.
This neighbor wanted me to pay the vet fees for this puppy that she had stolen from our yard in the first place.
I had agreed to that just to get Peaches back for my daughter but when we both contacted this neighbor, she told my friend that, "Things just didn't work out as she had hoped."
I also left a message on this neighbor's answering machine which was NOT replied to.
I called MANY individuals asking for help to get Peaches back THE FIRST TIME that this neighbor called the Animal Pound with FALSE claims and allegations and when the Animal Pound took Peaches.
I called the Humane Society and I left a message with Tracy M. there.
I called my friends, family.
I called two City Councillors; Errol Black and Garth Rice.
I even called the Mayor's office myself.
I wanted ACTION and HELP, NOT political correctness, for GOODNESS SAKES.
WHY is a woman from my former church involved in this YET AGAIN?
Why is she the one that the courts were told approached this neighbor in the FIRST place?
This is INTERFERENCE.
When I wouldn't agree to give Peaches to her now, as she had requested, she then came on board and became embroiled in this battle and had joined forces with my neighbor.
Are these the actions of someone STABLE within the Christian community?
Are these the actions of a TRUE Christian?
MANY individuals within this church were up in arms and appeared to be ready for battle in Pastor Mike's defense but they were fed hysteria, hype and speculation and NOT the facts.
WHICH part of my letter to Pastor Mike did he read to this church?
Did he read the part where I told him that I had NO INVOLVEMENT with this letter getting to The Brandon Sun?
I believe that Pastor Mike was VERY MUCH part of the problem for me at Bethel also.
He is hyper in many ways just like I am.
His inexperience and other factors also played a VERY LARGE part as well.
SEVERAL individuals told me how the church at Bethel were RALLIED by Pastor Mike the following Sunday regarding the difference between the discipline of the church and the discipline of the world.
There was MUCH applauding and SUPPORT for poor Pastor Mike after his letter to me made the front page of The Brandon Sun.
Well if this other woman won't come forward then she doesn't advance the case any. If she changes her mind I can setup her up with a thread or she can comment here. She can also email me and I can do it on email and figure out if he actually didn't follow any process.
But I should mention this. If Davis doesn't view himself as the restoring church he has an obligation to notify a new restoring church. Did Davis ever attempt this?
Darn rights I talked to the CBC.
They approached me and I was as mad as heck also.
WHERE ELSE do you receive a letter from a church asking you to find another church to worship in after you write a Letter to the Editor?
WHERE ELSE?
The church that I now attend has NEVER ONCE questioned or challenged ANY LETTER that ANY OF US have ever written to the newspaper.
This Pastor now stresses that he wants to see, "God's will done on earth as it is in Heaven."
He is often heard praying, "God, we DON'T WANT man's will, we want YOUR WILL. Holy Spirit, please come and have your way in our church, in our hearts, lives, families, in our city, etc."
He asked me to "make it right" with Pastor Mike and Bethel.
I have tried but I get NO reply or response from them.
I had ALREADY sent Pastor Mike a letter of apology right from the get go to apologize to him for that letter making the paper and for the embarrassment, grief etc. that this might have caused him.
I DON'T FEEL that I should have been sent that letter in the FIRST PLACE, however.
I DON'T FEEL that this was fair to me AT ALL.
What happened to speaking to people DIRECTLY?
Pastor Mike had called me only once previously and it was regarding the incident with the hockey horn.
He told me that the music department didn't think that this was a musical instrument.
He was chuckling about this when he related this incident to me.
I chuckled about this also and I said okay and that was the END of the story.
I NEVER mentioned this incident to anyone EVER again.
HOW and WHERE did this initial story come from that appeared at the beginning of this blog in the FIRST PLACE?
This is hype, hysteria, run-away train antics, etc. that APPEAR to be fueled by the leadership of Bethel as well.
Do they refuse to admit that they made a mistake?
Are they too proud to admit that they were wrong?
God is the only one who knows the answers to these questions.
SEVERAL individuals told me how the church at Bethel were RALLIED by Pastor Mike the following Sunday regarding the difference between the discipline of the church and the discipline of the world.
So this puts to rest the idea that wasn't a church discipline issue.
cd host your comment doesn't make sense. Deborah try and get the sermon on cd/podcast I think you'll find it had little to do with you. As for what part of your letter he read, from what I can recall he read that you appologized, but its not like I can remember word for word what was read or if the whole letter was read. Also an apology means very little when in the next breath you try and take them to court as a money making scheme. You've shown yourself untrustworthy for him to communicate with, but yet you can't understand if he won't communicate with you?
Cd host,
Regarding the accusation of me claiming that she was booted out for assult or what not. I actually checked back, because i though there were bits of that i mention, i did not recall claiming those were the reasons she was 'excommunicated'. So i checked back, and no i didn't claim that at all, infact i'll provide the quote of what i said.
Aside from that, the PAOC doesn't do excommunication (i think thats more of a catholic thing?) they will dismiss a membership if they are shown to have been in violation of the constitution.
(of which without being on the inside knowledge of absolutely Everything that went on, i can point out two things in the constitution that she would fall under discipline for:
"6.2.2 Any moral or ethical failure other than sexual misconduct or any conduct unbecoming to a local
church member (including, but not limited to deception, fraud, theft and assault).
6.2.3 Any act or action of a local church member, which is the cause of serious discord or dissension,
with or without malicious intent (Romans 16:17, 18; Proverbs 6:19).
Deborah was charged with theft and assault, (i believe that was even mentioned in the local paper at that time, as well as not too long ago) and has caused a large amount of serious discord and dissension.
As you can see i did Not claim she was 'kicked' out for that, i pointed out that she qualified under those as well. Where do you see me claiming that is what she was 'kicked' out for? If you're going to try and skew what i say and accuse me of that, at least make sure you have an idea of what was actually said.
(the italics in the quote were added today to make that part stand out to help clarify for you what was said, that though is all that's changed. Its from Jan. 18th, so you don't even have to take my word for it, look it up yourself.)
I also want the Bdn. resident to know that this teacher ALSO spoke to other teachers about myself because some of them indicated this to me.
This teacher TEAM-TAUGHT with the President of the Brandon Teachers Association, who JUST HAPPENED to be a member of Bethel, also.
IF this teacher's employment with the BSD HAS NOT been affected by this, then I DON'T BELIEVE that mine should be either.
THIS is what I am disputing.
Yes, we were BOTH unprofessional.
She started it by something that she did to me in the Staff Room and by REPEATEDLY sending her students into my Special Needs classroom and DISRUPTING THEM.
She did a few other things also but what I failed to realize was HOW she was setting me up to REACT to her.
I guess that I fell right into her little trap/game.
I substituted at this school NEARLY every day and the sale of my home had only recently occurred.
I ran into this woman since at a milieu school meeting at Harrison Middle Years School and she tried to start something up with me there.
She is VERY CONNIVING, MANIPULATIVE, CRAFTY, etc.
I have NO RESPECT for the actions of this woman towards myself.
I ALMOST went up to the microphone and OUTED HER RIGHT THEN AND THERE at this meeting!
I am VERY ANGRY WITH MYSELF that I ALLOWED myself to be manipulated by this woman in the first place but I was even MORE FURIOUS when I discovered that she was, in fact, a teacher.
I DO NOT FEEL that this behavior is acceptable when you are SUPPOSE to be a professional.
I DO NOT believe that it is do as I say but NOT as I do.
I believe that we are SUPPOSE to be the WHOLE package inside and outside of the classroom.
I have taught for MANY years and this is a teacher just starting out in the profession.
Also, getting back to the neighbor; at NO TIME, did I EVER touch this neighbor.
She laid FALSE CHARGES, bore false witness against me with the Brandon City Police.
She was a GOOD FRIEND with this woman from Bethel now.
I feel that there has been interference by these church members and that their perception of me was "colored" by the reaction of their Pastor towards myself.
THIS is what I have been disputing ALL along.
I'm speculating that IF it was okay for their Pastor to be treating me a certain way, that they felt JUSTIFIED in treating me the same way.
This ALL started with a Letter to the Editor and a lie whispered to a Pastor, remember.
Also, please understand that MANY of these individuals from Bethel belong to the Conservative Party of Brandon and they appear to take their politics VERY SERIOUSLY within this church.
This Pastor is FRIENDS with this Mayor and they both belong to the SAME political party.
Also, please DON'T FORGET that the Mayor's CAMPAIGN MGR. AND MOST of his campaign team in the last election were from this church.
These Conservatives are OUT TO WIN and it appears AT ANY COST.
The Conservative Party attempted to encourage and have charges laid against another Mayoral candidate in the last election, Mike Abbey, as well.
There is A LOT of stuff that goes on BEHIND the scenes that MANY of us can attest to.
Some individuals come across like teflon saints but what they are doing BEHIND THE SCENES here at election time is riveting and unbelievable sometimes.
They simply DON'T want anything to change within this city and some individuals WILL DO ALMOST ANYTHING to GUARANTEE that things DON'T.
MANY OF US can attest to this as another Mayoral candidate acknowledged in his Letter to the Editor as well.
He was right on.
I had NO IDEA how entrenched this Conservative Party was within Brandon and how for some, their Christianity and their politics appear to go hand in hand.
I see this now however.
Deborah --
You might find The family good reading. It addresses a similar global organization that had substantial influence on the Bush administration as well as other governments like Uganda.
Df --
Look at your comment from Jan 22:
Secondly, i do believe i gave two blatant reasons straight from the PAOC constitution as valid reasons for revoking membership. (1. she was charged with theft and assault 2. she caused serious discord) Both are constitutional reasons for removing membership/asking them to leave.
Neither one mentioned the PAC. At the time you were disagreeing that Davis had no reason and you gave those two reasons.
I gave two reasons that she Could have been asked to leave, but at no time did i claim that these were the reason she was sent the letter.
That still doesn't account for your post saying that i claimed these were the reasons. That was a misrepresentation of what was actually written.
CD host, I LIKE YOU VERY MUCH!
You are VERY INTELLIGENT and I REALLY APPRECIATE your VERY INTELLIGENT dialogue, debate, discourse, rebuttal, communication, etc.
You are SHARP, EDUCATED, INTELLIGENT, KEEN, FOCUSED and I REALLY APPRECIATE that about you.
I SHOULD HAVE HAD YOURSELF as my lawyer here and I think that this thing could have been wrapped up, in SO MANY AREAS, A LONG TIME AGO already!
THANK YOU, sir for VERY INFORMED AND INTELLIGENT dialogue!
CD host, I explained that the charge of assault was a FRAUDULENT ONE, ENCOURAGED by this member of Bethel, who was involved and had now become FRIENDS with this neighbor.
My lawyer indicated to myself that this charge WOULD NEVER have made it to court IF I had contacted a lawyer immediately.
This charge was also THROWN OUT when it did make it to court.
Actually, she charged me TWICE; each time I went over there to take back my 9 yr. old daughter's puppy.
Also, HOW did I cause dissension and discord within Bethel?
Was that caused by my writing a Letter to the Editor of our local newspaper?
Please EXPLAIN that one.
HOW EXACTLY was this dissension caused, in your mind?
Was it by my TELLING THE TRUTH?
Is this HOW I caused dissension or did I cause dissension because I criticized the leadership of our city and your BELOVED Conservative Party leader?
Please explain this dissension.
I'd like to hear the legitimization of this claim.
For someone who SUPPOSEDLY doesn't even live in this province, (which I don't believe for one moment,) you sure appear to have some "CONTROLLING SPIRIT" issues regarding myself and Bethel.
What is this issue to you, IF you DON'T live here or within the province, in fact, any longer?
What's it to you now?
Please explain this.
The reason that we would want ANYONE to become a member of a church that thinks like this would be?????????????????????????????????????????????????
NO WONDER many non-Christians want NOTHING to do with our churches nowadays with thinking like this, in my opinion anyway.
Good gravy, Lord Almighty!
DF --
I'm going to stand by what I wrote here. You have claimed some knowledge of this situation. I think without strong disclaimers like "Not that I know what the reasons were but two possible reasons that would meet the PAOC codes are..."
Especially given that you have said that you all knew about the letter Deborah produced. That it wasn't a smoking gun. But this letter shows that it had nothing to do with assault or disruption at church, it was related to (not respecting leadership / attempting to form a PAC). There was no hint of the other two issues.
Deborah --
I'm glad you have found me helpful. You actually can move in that direction. Given that we know this is a church discipline issue if you appoint me as canon council Davis failure to respond would be a serious breach. Do you want me to contact PAOC on your behalf officially to get formal statements? So far Davis has ignored me as a 3rd party, if he ignores me as a first party that's an entirely different matter.
I'd like to get to the bottom of this.
I believe that the point that DF was trying to make is that Deborah had been causing problems before the letter to the editor, she had a bad history of making bad decisions, so there were a number of reasons why she could be asked to leave (note how I didn't say she was told to leave). DF presented many reasons that fall with in the PAOC constitution of things that deborah did that the chruch could have acted on to excommunicate her. I think you're reading to much into what df said cd host. She never claimed that any of those were the reason Deborah recieved a letter, just that they were legal possible reasons why she could be excommunicated (but she wasn't) under the PAOC constitution.
so just for my own curiousity deborah. You were charged once for assult by going to your neighbors to take the dog back, so you thought you'd give it another go and hope for different results? I'm not sure how that makes sense.
I think first cd host you'd have to get wiser on Canadian laws and I don't believe some one who doesn't live in the same country as the person they want to represent can infact be their legal representation. As well as posting on a blog is hardly a valid contract for you to represent Deborah and go on her behalf to anyone. But have at it. If some how you can get to represent deborah, then I'm sure you'll get the same response and that would be to talk through the lawyers and then of course you'd have to actually convince the lawyer that you are legitimately representing her.
TT --
Canon lawyer. And only until I could get her proper PAOC counsel. Long term I think it should be someone who doesn't live thousands of miles away.
But honestly, I think if Davis stopped obfuscating this could be cleared up in 10 minutes. For example if your theory of the case is correct Davis could do his duty and write a proper letter of standing. The local town paper seems to quote Deborah they could quote that and bang the issue of Deborah / Bethel is now resolved.
I don't think he wants to do that. Which is one of the reasons I feel pretty free to be harsh here. If all he wanted was Deborah gone he could easily stop engaging in provocative acts, and instead do things to diminish connection.
and say he did do something like that, you can bet in the next heartbeat deborah would be trying to take him to court again. You really can't get anywhere with deborah on these things as she see's conspiracy where there is none and looks for ways to make money out of it. Its a no win for anyone involved.
correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of Canon law has to do with the catholic church and some anglican religions, of which the PAOC isn't. Also I don't think you'd qualify as a Canon Lawyer CD host.
http://www.canonlaw.info/a_canonlawyersarearent.htm
Deobrah is a protestant in a non liturgical denomination. A canon lawyer is simply an elder that a member chooses to assist them with their church discipline.
Had a valid church discipline been conducted in her case then there would have been a phase where Deborah would have had an opportunity to reach out to various elders, either in 2nd or 3rd phase of discipline. During that phase a full understanding of her case, from her perspective would have been explored and she would have had the opportunity to present "her side". That never happened because process wasn't followed.
What I'm offering to do, since she asked, is step in and get her first party representation. There is all sorts of ad-hominum attacks leveled at Deborah about why Davis should not give her due process (see your latest posts for a perfect example). Those don't apply to me.
Again she may say no, but since she asked I agreed and offered. We shall see what Deborah says.
Yes, CD host, I WOULD LIKE you to be involved in this IF it provides me with an opportunity for resolution and clarity in this matter.
IF clarity and resolution can be obtained WITHOUT the involvement of the PAOC somehow, this would be the MOST IDEAL situation.
I DO NOT wish to cause Pastor Mike to lose his job or to cause problems for him with the PAOC; to cause him harm in his future.
This is NOT my intent.
My intent is for resolution and clarity in this matter and the opportunity to present MY SIDE of matters.
Is there ANY OTHER WAY to obtain this WITHOUT involving the PAOC?
I DO believe in the Golden Rule; Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
I guess that's my bad then cd host, i had no idea that i needed to put disclaimers under my posts of all the things i'm Not saying.
Apparently i wrongly assumed you'd just read what was written without inserting your own agenda/words in there.
tt, THIS PUPPY WAS MY DAUGHTER'S PUPPY.
I SHOULD NOT have had to fight to get her back.
This puppy BELONGED to my daughter IN THE FIRST PLACE.
HOW UNSTABLE DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO ASSAULT SOMEONE AND THEN LAY FALSE CHARGES AGAINST A PERSON who is simply going over to RETRIEVE SOMETHING THAT BELONGED TO HER 9 YR. OLD LITTLE DAUGHTER, for goodness sakes, IN THE FIRST PLACE.
My daughter CRIED AND CRIED AND CRIED AND BEGGED ME TO DO SOMETHING to HELP HER.
IT WAS SO HEART BREAKING, CRUEL AND HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE for her and for our entire family!
You stalked our yard with this neighbor.
You helped this neighbor to harass the crap out of us.
You WOULDN'T leave us alone.
I believe that you KNOW all about this situation.
MANY TIMES my daughter wanted to take things into her own hands.
Perhaps I should have allowed this.
What kind of an EVIL WITCH do you have to be to do this to a 9 yr. old little girl who received a gift from her father whom she HARDLY EVER GETS TO SEE when you ALREADY HAVE A DOG AND TWO CATS OF YOUR OWN?
My daughter was EXTREMELY HEARTBROKEN over this EXTREMELY SELFISH and senseless act.
A member of my former church is involved in this and is NOW HELPING my neighbor?
HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?
How SICK do you have to be?
This was my daughter's puppy and IT STILL IS.
WHAT KIND OF A PERSON DOES THIS TO A LITTLE GIRL?
HOW COULD SOMEONE WHO CALLS THEMSELVES A CHRISTIAN BE INVOLVED IN THIS WITH YOUR NEIGHBOR?
This woman KNEW HOW MUCH THIS PUPPY meant to us because we had pretty much lost EVERYTHING ELSE just prior to this.
THIS was the LAST STRAW.
I really DON'T KNOW how you can live with yourself.
I believe you to be a VERY spiteful, disturbed, sick individual.
Perhaps this SAME thing would have to happen to your OWN child, BEFORE you could possibly understand HOW WICKED AND EVIL your actions were and are towards myself, my daughter and our family.
Does it make you feel more powerful because you KNOW how you helped this neighbor?
Does this give you some sort of sick power and control over me?
Just don't EVER come anywhere near my life and my daughter's after ALL of the trouble you have caused for myself, Pastor Mike probably, Bethel and EVERYONE else.
Let us meet with a representative and hopefully the REAL TRUTH will be exposed then.
I hope that you will BOTH be convicted IF you are involved in this in ANY WAY.
IF you are involved, you are going DOWN, baby!
I'd like to REBUKE EVERY DARN DEMON THAT LIVES WITHIN EACH OF YOU, YOU WICKED THINGS.
CD host, I want these gossiping witches brought before the PAOC.
THIS I KNOW FOR SURE.
Please make this one of my requests.
I want to have my day with these broads, I tell you.
I want to see how God is going to handle these witches.
THIS is the only part that I am REALLY looking forward to.
CD host, I want to know what this Julie V.A. said to Pastor Mike to cause him to get so riled up in the first place.
IF Pastor Mike thinks that this is the BEST WAY, the most fair way to proceed, then let us proceed with the PAOC involvement.
IF there is another way, let us explore that option also.
I want these witches to stand before me and face me with their tales, lies and stories.
Should I have a lawyer or a member of the Brandon City Police present there also to record their lies?
I want these broads made ACCOUNTABLE for their actions towards EVERYONE who they have hurt at Bethel and elsewhere.
Please advise me how to properly proceed with this.
Remember, I want to be TOTALLY FAIR to Pastor Mike here.
My heart is for clarity and good and NOT for evil.
Like I said, IF there is another way to proceed that is MORE FAIR for Pastor Mike and ALL of us, then let's go with that procedure.
Deborah --
I can approach Davis again, but if he blows me off then what? PAOC is part of where Davis gets his legitimacy. Their legitimacy is confirmed on him. If you don't want to take that away then you do still see Davis as a legitimate paster.
I wrote a piece to help you start to see the way Davis has manipulated you, the way church discipline plays on your guilt: Darkness at noon and church discipline.
You see deborah, when you say stuff like "My heart is for clarity and good and NOT for evil" and then call people broads and witches, etc.. its just hard to believe anything about that statement. Frankly, I don't care about the dog, I don't have it, never assisted anyone in taking it etc, I've never even seen the dog. Besides that, you're relying on some one to help you deborah who can be of very little help. He claims to know all these things about churches but has very little real knowledge about about how churches work. Canon law won't hold anything in the PAOC it is a catholic developed thing, and besides that those who represent others as canon lawyers can not just walk in off the street and do so. They need to have education/degree's to back it up. Which I'm assuming cd host does not have or he'd realize that He can't really help you there. I know I shouldn't be surprised based on past behaviour from you, but I am shocked that you think cd host will solve your problems and has any pull with in the PAOC or pastor mike. If you want to have any kind of meeting with pastor mike I suggest you do it on your own through lawyers as you've been told to. There really isn't anything cd host can do for you seeing as saying "yes help me" on a blog is not any kind of legally binding contract to have some one represent you. There are proper channels to solve problems a blog, the brandon sun etc are not any of them. I honestly don't see it helping you though, your version of the truth is far from the actual truth in almost every situation.
as a side note, deborah you call people Gossips, yet you gossip as much as anyone else out there you've accused. You call people evil, witches, etc... but we see here how vile your language turns when people don't agree with you. You say you only want the truth, but when presented with the full truth and legal documents to back it up you turn and name call and become hateful. Do you not see any of that?
You say that, "You shouldn't be surprised based on past behavior from myself?"
What the H-e-double hockey sticks are you even talking about?
Are you a zealous nut ball or what?
I really DON'T KNOW what kind of a delusional world you are living in but it is just that.
Perhaps you have to perpetuate this MYTH in order to justify whatever within yourself or within this church but your viewpoint is ABSOLUTELY UNFOUNDED, NOT BASED ON TRUTH, speculative at best and ABSOLUTELY NOT CORRECT at all.
I've NEVER had to deal with such INSANITY before from members of a church and I'm really NOT QUITE sure how to handle ALL of this RIDICULOUSNESS and nonsense.
WHAT KIND of people are you really?
You don't sound like a Christian AT ALL but rather like a legalistic I'm NOT SURE what.
I am NOT familiar with people that REFUSE to admit that they were BADLY mistaken and so I'm NOT TOTALLY sure how to deal with your nonsense.
This is just RIDICULOUS and I have NO IDEA where these myths, untruths and this ABSOLUTE NONSENSE is coming from.
"You say that, "You shouldn't be surprised based on past behavior from myself?"
What the H-e-double hockey sticks are you even talking about?"
It means that I shouldn't be surprised that you'd do something that doesn't even remotely make sense, because that kinds seems to be your thing. BTW did you read the rest of that post? cause you failed once again to address anything else in it. I'd especially love for you to answer the last paragraph.
CD-Host
"SEVERAL individuals told me how the church at Bethel were RALLIED by Pastor Mike the following Sunday regarding the difference between the discipline of the church and the discipline of the world.
So this puts to rest the idea that wasn't a church discipline issue."
Sorry cd-host, you are making an assumption that Deborah's word is exactly correct on what she heard or is saying. She has been caught in exagerations before on this blog on facts she has, i agree that someone else that tells hers this should be coming forward. Remember, you can't prosecute someone on only the word of someone else. But i do agree that pastor mike needs to address the mistake/error/whatever in his response to the letter in the paper. That should clear up exactly what the situation is regarding being a member or such. Either way it goes, he does still have something to answer for, just what it is will depend on what his response is.
Deborah,
Come to think of it, didn't you tell Pastor mike you didn't know how the letter got to the paper? But i am positive that you told me earlier in the posts that you won't tell us how, but you do know exactly how it got there. mmmm, so who are you lyeing to, us or Pastor Mike. Either way, not very christian thing to do.
I refuse to comment of the house anymore, legally it has nothing to do with church disipline or your mayoral campaign. And legally you have no leg to stand on. Hopefully you have learned from it and will use professionals when purchasing objects or personal property to protect yourself. Fair warning is that when in business - "If you think you got a great deal, first count your fingers, then your money, make sure you still have them."
And i repeat with the dog, you didn't fullfil the contract you won in court. Do you feel that you don't have to obide by the laws put forth. The court has the final say regardless. If the court says for you to pay x amount of dollars before you get something that you win in court, then it doesn't belong to you until you pay the amount. Again bottom line, pay and you play. Don't pay, no play. Very simple.
Bdn resident --
Just to clarify on Deborah's behalf. She agrees she talked with the CBC, not that she initiated with the local paper. There was more than one media contact in the sequence of events. I don't think she is contradicting herself here.
Just to clarify a bit more, early on (in the blog) i believe she claimed a male mayoral candidate gave the letter to the paper, then she claimed to have not known who gave the letter to the paper or how they got it, but just recently she admitted she did know, and indicated in the post that she wouldn't reveal the Woman's name.
Like many of deborah's stories this one also has quite a few versions of the the same events.
The court NEVER told me to pay a certain amount for my daughter's puppy.
This neighbor SUGGESTED this, in court, and I agreed with her, just to get my daughter's puppy back.
My friend and I BOTH called this neighbor and she told my friend that, "Things didn't work out like she had planned and so NO, she wasn't going to give Peaches back to us after all."
At THIS point, we should have marched right back to the courthouse yet again.
WHY is a member of Bethel and a former friend of mine the one INITIATING the contact with this neighbor in the first place, when she was asked to take care of our puppy for us?
The court has heard this testimony and it is on tape, from this neighbor.
In my letter to Pastor Mike I indicated IMMEDIATELY that I knew who was responsible for taking this letter to The Brandon Sun.
I ALWAYS knew and I indicated that immediately to Pastor Mike and he would have that written statement in the original letter that I sent to him.
I am NOT going to reveal this person's name in order to protect them.
IF they wish to come forward in the days ahead, I will leave that up to them.
I also DIDN'T EXPECT someone who calls themselves a Christian and who has QUITE A MAJOR POSITION within a church to FLEECE me.
I didn't think that we were suppose to fleece the flock.
I admit my part of naievity in this entire matter.
I called Pastor Mike on this issue because he told me that he was responsible unto God for the members of his congregation.
I thought well, if I can somehow get in trouble with this church for writing a personal and private Letter to the Editor, well, then I want to hold you to your word and BE ACCOUNTABLE for what these individuals, who are members of your church, did to me regarding the private sale of their home to me.
A member of this church started this whole ball rolling with a lie to Pastor Mike in the FIRST place.
Why don't you take responsibility for that?
CD host, I forwarded to you a copy of a letter that I just sent to the President of The Brandon Chamber of Commerce.
A friend of mine called me the other day and he said to me, "Deborah, I think that a court injunction should be applied for to stop all milieu school proceedings until common sense prevails."
That is now our next plan of action with our current School Board.
Their next meeting is on April 12, 2010 at 7:00 pm at the Brandon School Division office.
We are the majority electorate. We tell the minority how it is all going to go down and NOT the other way around.
No one disputes having a French milieu school in Brandon but to uproot, unsettle ALL of these children, etc. appears to be ridiculous, ludicrous and ill-thought out.
Wouldn't you have the building in place first BEFORE proceeding with such an undertaking?
What is the rush on this proposal anyway?
Two brand new gymnasiums are going to be required, at a cost to the taxpayer, of at LEAST 2.5 million dollars EACH.
Our requests/concerns, objections to this milieu decision have repeatedly fallen on deaf ears and so now it is time to take a stand for common sense and for this majority electorate.
THIS is our next plan of action here.
Unfortunately, I won't be in attendance for this meeting because of my teaching commitments further away but I will be staying on top of this situation.
Where are ALL of our politicians now who committed themselves to standing up for and SERVING the best interests of their constituents when they were elected?
CD-Host,
"March 20, 2010 11:04 PM
Deborah Boschman said...
I knew ALL along who took that letter to The Brandon Sun."
That should dispell any asumptions regarding Deborah and letter to the paper. Just who she was lieing to regarding the letter question is still up in the air.
Just for clarification CD-Host. When you contact pastor mike for this, what are contacting him about. I believe that it would be beneficial for you to discribe in detail what exactly you are going to bat on for her. Are you going to question about the dog issue, the house sale issue, and so on. Are you going to approach him regarding the accusations of organizing a harrassement campaign against her.
You may want to get this out in the open and on the blog so that if everything doesn't end as she thinks it should that she doesn't expect more than you are willing to go on a limb for. Or blame you for it if it doesn't work.
Are you willing Deborah to let this end if CD-Host gets involved and recieves answers regarding the banishment/excommunication thing with bethel. Escpecially if it doesn't end the way you think it should. Unfortunately life rarely works out the way we believe it should.
Those are lies D.F. and you know it.
It is on tape at the courthouse where this neighbor states that she had changed her mind.
This SHOULD NEVER have occurred in the first place and indicates a LACK OF LEADERSHIP at City Hall, in my opinion, when I called and asked for help on this issue to so many different sources.
There are MANY others who are coming forward with many of these similar complaints with their pets and other complaints/concerns.
NO ONE from my former church SHOULD HAVE BEEN INVOLVED in contacting this neighbor in the FIRST PLACE.
Someone from Bethel whispered a lie to Pastor Mike in the first place.
This lie was NOT checked out for validity and things just snowballed and escalated from there.
Put the blame where it is due.
This ALL started from within the walls of Bethel.
Please address that issue in the first place.
I ALWAYS indicated that I knew who had taken the letter down to the Brandon Sun.
I indicated this right from the start.
Stop looking for excuses and deal with some of the dysfunction that appears to exist within Bethel, in the first place.
Stop blaming everyone else for what was started within the church in the FIRST place.
Take ownership for your responsibility and involvement in some of this.
Grow up already.
Bdn Resident --
The only thing I was willing to discuss with Mike was the church discipline issue which she wasn't OK with since to do that it would likely need to go before PAOC. So right now nothing until she changes her mind regarding getting official information regarding the discipline.
What I intended to discuss with Mike was the stuff under his direct control.
1) Deborah's current status, i.e. a formal letter of standing or a formal statement that she was never a member thus the congregation never dismissed her.
1') If she was never a member a retraction regarding his pastoral responsibilities in the public letter. In other words this is just a spat between two Christians not a public rebuke by a pastor to a member of the flock.
2) If she was excommunicated the details regarding that. With the possibility of appeal depending on what comes out of it.
3) Assuming she was excommunicated his doctrine on shunning. In other words was the harassment campaign a church function (I assume it wasn't) or just because people don't like how this was handled?
That's it. The dog has been examined by a court already. The harassment campaign as it crosses over into the state has been examined by the public as part of her electoral campaign. I've never agreed with her regarding the house.
CD-Host, well said, sorry i wasn't trying to be a jerk or accuse or anything. I just felt that a exact wording was called for so that no assumptions can be made regarding it. I hope you do get the opportunity to clear that part of the mystery up. It should give clarity, although i still disagree about the shunning. My feeling is that until some irrefutable proof has been brought forward that the church and not an individual was acting in any sort of harrassement, that it would be better left as a different topic.
I am curious as to Deborah's reaction to what we have discussed though. And a answer to my question to her.
Bdn. resident, right from the get go, I stated that I knew who had taken that letter to The Brandon Sun.
I indicated this right away to Pastor Mike in my letter to him also.
I indicated to him that it wasn't myself and that I knew who had done this.
I have stated this from the very beginning.
There are NO surprises here nor a smoking gun.
It WASN'T myself, which you can confirm with the Brandon Sun, if you would like to call them up.
Melissa Ridgen is no longer employed with them. She is the one that wrote the article and asked me for my opinion of it after she already had obtained a copy of this letter.
I don't feel that I should have EVER received a letter like this from Bethel WITHOUT having checked out ALL of the facts, without checking the validity of the claims and accusations against myself, without giving me an opportunity to refute or rebuke these false claims and without having ever spoken to me personally about this matter in the first place.
This, I feel, was unacceptable, unprofessional, negligent, reprehensible and totally UNFAIR to myself.
I want my name cleared and the untruths, misconceptions regarding myself exposed by and to members of this church.
I DON'T WANT to EVER see this happen to anyone else in the future.
NO ONE should have to go through what I went through after writing a private and personal Letter to the Editor.
Individuals SHOULD NOT have taken it upon themselves to rally against myself on behalf of Pastor Mike and Bethel, WHEN THEY DID NOT KNOW AND OR HAVE ALL OF THE FACTS.
They simply made assumptions and then immediately and emotionally acted and reacted on these.
It appears that Pastor Mike did the same.
This is NOT FAIR to a person and SHOULD NEVER be repeated.
It appears that MANY individuals over-reacted when they DID NOT have the truth and/or all of the facts.
Lies were told about myself and then believed as truth and fact WITHOUT anyone EVER consulting me or informing me about ANY of these rumors, accusations or stories.
I want something done with these gossips so that THIS WILL NEVER BE REPEATED against another individual in the future.
There should definitely be MUCH BETTER CHECKS, MEASURES and BALANCES in place to PREVENT something as AWFUL as this from recurring again to anyone else.
NO ONE should have to go through what I have because they wrote a Letter to the Editor in the first place.
I want my name cleared in this matter and the REAL truth told here, if that is possible.
I feel that Bethel owes me a HUGE APOLOGY for overreacting and NOT checking out the REAL FACTS.
IF they are the Christian church that they claim to be, they should have tried to resolve this with me A LONG TIME AGO rather than shunning me and refusing to speak to me.
This is unacceptable behavior for a church, in my opinion.
People running to a Pastor with gossip, lies and slander should also NOT be encouraged and/or taken as fact.
Bethel needs to GROW UP in many areas so that an event of this magnitude is NOT or CAN NEVER be repeated in the future.
I want a SINCERE public apology from Bethel, a meeting with Pastor Mike and/or the Board in person, or an apology from ALL of them, or whatever would be fitting for a travesty of this magnitude against another individual from a GROUP of church members.
Our puppy was stolen from us and this member from Bethel, Gayle K. told me ALL about HOW they did what they did.
They are going to have to answer to God for what they did to us and to my 9 yr. old daughter.
Honestly deborah, they don't owe you an apology nor were they wrong in what they did. Pastor mike is a smart man, unlikely to just believe any random gossip going around. He had valid reason for what he did, even if you don't see it. Just as you claim other will have to answer for their actions so do you, you have told lies and yo've been caught on here lying (I can supply the links again). Your not this martyr that you're claiming to be.
Deborah, i agree that the letter should never have been sent to you from Pastor Mike, your right to political belief and speech should never be taken away or directed by another. But in the same sentence, gossip works both ways, you have slandered people while providing no proof. You have criticized and belittled people regarding your dealings with them. You talked about the people you dealt with on the house and dog and called them every name in the book kind of thing. You said yourself that the woman suggested and you agreed in court about the money. The judge would then have to rule the case finalized after you both agreed. The money is owed before the dog becomes yours again, legal, legal, legal. lets go with the letter that ended up at the paper, how did it get from your hand to the paper, well it must have got from your hand to someone elses before the paper. Did someone break into your house and take it, or did you hand it to someone and say that it would be nice if they took it there because you didn't want to do it yourself. Not an accusation, just a question. I know the answer, but what are you going to respond. gossips are identified as someone who talks alot and listens very little, you discuss everyone else in this blog and others, you mention all your problems with people to anyone who will listen, does that mean you are a gossip as well. Again not an accusation, just a question i await to hear the answer to.
CD-Host - while some of your comments i feel still leave questions unanswered, i feel that you have gotten to the core of the issue here, the reason deborah is either excommunicated/shunned/banished or a mistake on his part in his wording. He still needs to be asked about trying to dictate someones political direction. But i applaud your willing to end the problem with the church.
CD host, yes, I would be very happy if you could represent me and this case, on my behalf, before the PAOC.
Bdn. resident, I REALLY RESENT your smart alec comment about how Pastor Mike's letter to me ended up getting to The Brandon Sun.
Well, my mother wanted a copy of this letter, as did MANY others.
I gave them the copies that they requested.
NO ONE, including myself, could believe this letter.
I COULD NOT BELIEVE what I was reading.
I DID NOT BELIEVE that it was possible to receive a letter like that from a church when ALL I did was to write a personal and private Letter to the Editor.
For your information, an individual came up to me last week, from Bethel, and told me that they were VERY GLAD that this letter got out there to the public so that everyone could see what REALLY went on there.
Pastor Mike was VERY APOLOGETIC to the church about his actions in this letter, from what I was told, but I feel that his apology was misplaced.
I feel that I was the one who should have been apologized to, as well.
Since when do you get this kind of a response when you write a personal and a private Letter to the Editor?
WHERE ELSE does this happen?
I had NO PRIOR PROBLEMS WITH THIS CHURCH THAT I WAS EVER MADE AWARE OF, PRIOR TO THIS LETTER; NONE.
IF there were any, besides the horn incident, I WAS NEVER MADE AWARE OF ANY OTHER COMPLAINT, EVER.
I was VERY UPSET with the Administrator's husband, but other than telling the Pastor about this, the only other person who knew about this WAS THIS GOSSIP from Bethel.
The ONLY ONE who spread this was this GOSSIP, who pushed herself into my home.
I HAD NO IDEA what kind of a person this woman REALLY WAS and her HORRIBLE AND CONSTANT PATTERNS OF GOSSIPING, running to and fro with her gossip, etc.
THIS NEIGHBOR REFUSED TO GIVE US OUR PUPPY BACK.
The court unfortunately WAS NOT MADE AWARE OF AND DID NOT KNOW about this.
This neighbor STOLE our puppy from us, with the help of this gossip from Bethel, who then told me ALL ABOUT how they both accomplished this.
We should have gone to the courts again regarding this neighbor's refusal to give us back our puppy.
Others within Brandon have also lost their pets.
My horrible incident involved a HORRIBLE GOSSIP from Bethel.
She was HEAVILY INVOLVED in this right from the get go.
Yes, CD host, if it is possible, I would like a FULL INQUIRY and INVESTIGATION into this matter.
How could my writing a Letter to the Editor lead to ALL of this nonsense from this church?
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?
Who is to blame for this?
Is it the Board of Bethel, Pastor Mike, a combination of both or what?
HOW COULD THIS HAVE EVER HAPPENED?
How could charges against myself be laid when there was ABSOLUTELY NO ASSAULT WHATSOEVER?
I simply went over to my neighbor's to retrieve my daughter's puppy.
I NEVER TOUCHED THIS WOMAN ONCE and so HOW could this charge have ever been laid in the first place?
WHY was a woman from Bethel involved in running to this neighbor in the first place, as the courts were told?
WHY is a well-know gossip from Bethel involved in spreading stories to my neighbors?
HOW is it possible for these events to happen succinctly, to an individual, when all you did was write an honest Letter to the Editor about your own personal opinion in the first place?
Why is a gossip running to Pastor Mike and whispering to him about me in the first place?
WHY are these well-known gossips and trouble-makers within this church even being listened to at all?
WHY are THEY not in trouble with this church?
HOW could my employment with The Brandon School Division be affected by all of this when I had previously taught VERY SUCCESSFULLY with them for approximately ten years, off and on, with NO PRIOR complaints and/or problems, ever?
I want ALL of these questions answered in the days ahead.
I just checked my Facebook page and there was a message for me from someone that I don't know.
They sent me Proverbs 19:5, 8 and 9.
"A false witness will not go unpunished and he who speaks lies WILL NOT ESCAPE; he who speaks lies SHALL PERISH."
He told me that these words are from God and that he who LIES is of Satan and HE WHO TELLS THE TRUTH IS IS OF GOD. You cannot serve two masters. You will love one and HATE the other.
He then gave me Proverbs 16:16-23:
"These six things the Lord hates, yes, these are an ABOMINATION to Him: A proud look, a LYING tongue, hands that shed INNOCENT BLOOD, a heart that DEVISES WICKED PLANS, feet that are SWIFT IN RUNNING TO EVIL, a FALSE WITNESS who SPEAKS LIES, and one who sows discord among brethren."
He said that to tell lies is to lead you to DEATH or to HELL for LIES ARE OF SATAN.
He then gave me, Provers 25:18-20:
"A man who bears FALSE WITNESS against his neighbors is like a club, a sword, a sharp arrow. Confidence in an UNFAITHFUL MAN in time of trouble is like a bad tooth and a foot out of joint, like one who takes away a garment in cold weather, like vinegar on soda, like one who sings songs to a heavy heart."
This is what God thinks of LIES and the ones who tell them.
This man said that he also experienced what it was like to be LIED ABOUT, have FALSE WITNESS, FALSE TESTIMONY and lies told about himself.
I want God to finally EXPOSE that I have ALWAYS told the truth here and that there MUST be a HUGE problem within Bethel that these gossips are allowed to continue to flourish in their LIES, UNTRUTHS, FALSE WITNESS, FALSE TESTIMONY, etc.
I want these women EXPOSED for WHO and WHAT they REALLY ARE and WHO THEIR ACTIONS REPEATEDLY SAY THAT THEY REALLY SERVE.
I want the REAL TRUTH to be EXPOSED, once and for all, for all to see and hear.
What I have repeatedly relayed time and time and time again here, is what actually happened to me, in this instance, involving this church and these gossips from this church, etc.
A police officer told my friend, who is prepared to testify, that this Coleen N. has made AT LEAST 200 or more calls of complaint to the Brandon City Police about her neighbors.
He said that her most previous court case is also documented in The Brandon Sun.
She attends Bethel, is FRIENDS with these gossips that I had problems with, etc.
This person also told me that this woman alone, Colleen N. has cost the city, at LEAST $100,000, in his estimation, to the taxpayer, for her defense, the costs to the police to investigate EACH complaint against her neighbors, etc.
Let's talk about ALL of these situations/scenarios.
WHY has the City NOT done anything to SUPPORT THE BRANDON CITY POLICE regarding this woman in the past?
WHY has Bethel NOT DEALT with this woman in the past?
Bethel had NO PROBLEMS telling me EXACTLY what they thought about my Letter to the Editor.
I know this woman a little bit and she has told me personally that she ALSO HAD PROBLEMS AND TROUBLE WITH BETHEL and with this SAME gossip that I also had trouble with.
They are on again/off again friends.
Well, let's just GET IT ALL OUT THERE now.
Let's air ALL of our dirty laundry to the PAOC now.
I will call this woman forward to testify also.
She has previously told me MANY things about this one gossip from Bethel.
Like how she abused our Peaches and hit her with a fly swatter in the face, tied her up to a VERY SHORT tether, etc.
ALL of these factors led to my removal of Peaches from her care.
ALL of this woman's children were also taken away from her by Child and Family Services.
I was NOT aware of this previously and I would NEVER have judged her for this but if we're getting to the TRUTH of matters here, well then, let's go.
Deborah --
CD host, yes, I would be very happy if you could represent me and this case, on my behalf, before the PAOC.
OK good I'm glad you are doing this. Why the switch if you don't mind me asking? In a few days if you don't retract I'll make a final attempt to contact Pastor Davis on your behalf and then kick it up the chain, as a spiritual abuse complaint.
In the meanwhile from you what I need is a sequence of events ordered chronologically, you can email me this if you want. I'm posting here in case anyone else wants to step forward with dates This should definitely include
* dates on the horn incident and when you spoke with Davis about it.
* any previous involvement with church members in your attempt to organize a PAC. The key to your defense is that you were engaged in political action not just random rudeness at the time of Davis' reprimand, you are going to need to prove that. Davis letter is very damning in this regard, your subsequent for mayor prove it after the fact. Some context before, especially context Davis would have known about allow us to prove that Davis knowingly excommunicated you for engaging in town politics. In line with this, the names of the various town officials, holding appointed office or whom are elected as part of the same party or slate, that attend Brandon, and again any incidents in a chronology involving those people.
* The sequence of events that led to Davis' letter getting to the Sun and your discussion with the CBC. Again this establishes a political secular context.
* What evidence you had regarding the former administrators husband and theft. Not your house but other fraudulent things. At least from the time line your involvement in politics started with a political disagreement with an secular official whose spouse had involvement in Brandon. It is important we establish Davis knew about that.
* A chronology and sequence of your discussions with Davis and his wife regarding you leaving. Each conversation and what was said. Of key importance is how you informed of the excommunication.
* According to TC there was some sort of an instance of you repenting in church publicly. Cover that. Dates and what exactly you repented of, what he said what you said. If you are going to deny it ever happened that's fine but if there was an incident similar to what she was describing I need to know.
Harassment is a weak part of your case. If you want to go for it:
* We need names and what their tie to the church and Davis is for the ones who engaged in the conspiracy, do they sit on the board are they deacons.... The specifics of the incidents aren't too relevant yet. You've mentioned other victims who aren't willing to go public, but were also subject to invalid excommunication or church organized harassment. We need them to establish pattern. Decide if they will lie if they get called by an elder from PAOC about what happened to them. I need to know either way. If they were just blowing off steam or they had a genuine complaint is very germane to your case. Churches that engage in post separation harassment do so regularly if we can't prove pattern you need to completely drop it.
The way this needs to read is:
May 6, 2005 I had a brief discussion with ABC member of the of the town council about how I didn't like the new parking lot on DEF street and he told me, "GHI".
Refrain from any judgements like gossip, witches, .... Don't attempt to justify your actions or defend yourself this is just pure objective fact.
Deborah, are you serious? Really? You do NOT always tell the truth, you've been REPEATEDLY caught in lies on this site. (at the very least, i suspect though that this probably isn't the only place). You are hardly an innocent party in all these situations.
I haven't said anything about it until now, mostly because i don't think anyone will take this seriously. But really, the whole idea of cd representing you as a 'canon lawyer' is beyond ridiculous.
i don't imagine anything will change in the situation at all. Its sad really, I think cd, that you're taking advantage of a disturbed person to further your own causes. (You want inside knowledge of a situation that is not your business). I wonder if either of you realize that a canon lawyer is an actual profession, and one that has a great deal of training, which from my understanding cd, you lack.
I imagine if you wanted to be taken seriously, you would look for a real lawyer to represent you, not some guy on a blog. Either way, have at it, and when this doesn't work out for you, what new accusations will you come up with to put yourself in the spotlight again?
DF --
As I have commented before Deborah is a Protestant. If she were Catholic than yes there are professionals. For protestants it is just an elder. And I want be a guy from a blog when I go to PAOC.
I start doing business under my real name but that isn't on the internet.
The ONLY ONE who is disturbed on this blog is YOU, D.F., and your two OTHER gossiping friends and ANYONE ELSE THAT YOU MAY HAVE INFLUENCED WITH YOUR LIES.
YOU ARE A LIAR and I am going to try to prove this ONCE AND FOR ALL.
I want EVERYONE to know what you have done to myself and my daughter, to this church, to this Pastor and YOUR INVOLVEMENT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY IN THIS and I am going to go to WHATEVER MEANS AVAILABLE TO ME ON THIS EARTH to get to the truth here.
WHAT I HAVE BEEN THROUGH with you and your other two friends and how you've managed to influence Bethel with your LIES, DECEPTION, FALSE WITNESS, FALSE TESTIMONY IS AN UTTER DISGRACE.
It is an ABSOLUTE ABOMINATION!
NO ONE should EVER have had to go through WHAT I HAVE BEEN THROUGH with you.
YOU are the ONLY DISTURBED INDIVIDUAL on here that I repeatedly see.
How DARE you speak to me that way in light of ALL THAT YOU HAVE DONE!
I want YOU to be CAUGHT in the trap of YOUR OWN MAKING, LIES, DECEPTION, FALSE WITNESS, FALSE TESTIMONY TO THIS CHURCH, TO THIS PASTOR, YOUR WICKEDNESS, GOSSIPING AND DECEIT.
My daughter cried for HALF A YEAR BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
YOU TOOK HER PUPPY AWAY FROM HER TOO because you wanted to get back at us.
YOU are the one who is full of hate.
You wouldn't shut up. You wouldn't stop gossiping. You WOULDN'T STOP interfering in my life. You just WOULDN'T leave us alone. You HARASSED US HORRIBLY. You got my neighbors involved. You involved this church, this Pastor.
Bethel did NOTHING ABOUT YOU AND YOUR WICKEDNESS.
You even indicated on this blog that you contacted the Superintendent of the Brandon School Division and God only knows how MANY others.
You wrote a Letter to the Editor against myself to The Brandon Sun.
You are the only DISTURBED individual on here that I see.
YOU STARTED ALL OF THIS WITH YOUR OTHER FRIEND.
I'M JUST GOING TO FINISH IT.
Your father is the father of lies; Satan himself.
I DON'T KNOW IF I can ensure that this NEVER happens to ANY other individual, but IF I can, I am going to.
YOU ARE A FUNDAMENTALIST NUT BAR and/or extremist.
How are YOU ANY different from an Islamic extremist?
The ONLY DIFFERENCE is that you don't have a bomb.
YOU LIED. YOU GOSSIPED. YOU BORE FALSE WITNESS. YOU INTERFERED. YOU WOULDN'T SHUT UP. YOU WOULDN'T STAY OUT OF THINGS. YOU WOULDN'T LEAVE US ALONE. You bore FALSE TESTIMONY. You immediately involved yourself with my neighbors and gossiped to them, to everyone who would listen to you.
You REPEATEDLY ran back and forth to this Administrator, to this Pastor, to this church, to my neighbors, with your lies, your slander, your gossip.
Who's DISTURBED now?
I see it as being ONLY YOURSELF.
I hope that you are VERY SATISFIED NOW with what you have created, you demonic thing.
I would like to call EVERYONE FORWARD who has EVER HAD ANY UNSATISFACTORY DEALINGS WITH YOU AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF THEM.
How will you LIE your way out now, you EVIL THING?
YOU ARE ANYTHING BUT WHAT I BELIEVE A REAL CHRISTIAN TO BE!
I DON'T want to see harm come to Pastor Mike.
It is these GOSSIPING WITCHES AND THESE LIES THAT GOT THIS WHOLE THING STARTED that I am after.
I want these women STOPPED from doing this AGAIN within this church and/or elsewhere.
I was harassed, bullied, stalked, watched, lied about, gossiped about, you name it, from these women and ALL I did was to write a personal and private Letter to the Editor.
HOW can I get these women to be held ACCOUNTABLE for their lies, their WICKEDNESS, their EVIL actions towards myself, etc.
I'm sure that Pastor Mike MUST HAVE BEEN lied to.
These women have tried to discredit me in EVERY WAY IMAGINABLE to this church.
HOW can this happen to a person?
I DON'T want to see harm come to Pastor Mike.
It is the REAL, HONEST TRUTH that I am after here.
CD host, I DON'T KNOW what TC is talking about AT ALL.
Where did this supposedly occur or take place?
I wrote Pastor Mike a letter.
There was NOTHING else because I DID NOTHING ELSE.
Where is THIS claim coming from now?
I REPEATEDLY ASKED to make this right and to meet with Bethel and get this sorted out and straightened out.
THESE WOMEN LIED TO PASTOR MIKE, TO BETHEL, TO THIS CHURCH, TO MY NEIGHBORS.
You REPEATEDLY REFUSED to meet with me.
IF you wish to meet with me, fine but I DID NOT DO WHAT THESE HORRIBLE GOSSIPS HAVE ACCUSED ME OF DOING. NO WAY!
I want to be heard. I want to be taken seriously.
I DON'T want to be dismissed ANY LONGER.
I want these LIES and LIARS to stop and to be SILENCED once and for all.
Deborah --
CD host, I DON'T KNOW what TC is talking about AT ALL.
Where did this supposedly occur or take place?
First off I apologize I remembered incorrectly it was DF not TC.
Are you absolutely sure there was no public repentance incident? If it is not on the time line because this was a public incident Davis will tear the rest of your case to shreds. If you say it absolutely didn't happen I believe you, but I want you to just think about and give me anything you can think of that sounds like what DF described. Here is DF's comment from March 3rd. Reread it and then either give me the details (you can do that by email if you would prefer) or just firm deny it again.
Also I notice you keep making the comment you don't want harm to come to Pastor Mike. This is why I'm asking you to assemble this documentation, and make sure you are onboard in your heart. The step with PAOC is an abuse complaint against Pastor Mike. If you are proven correct that won't be good for him. My theory of the case is that he is an arrogant blow hard who kicked a woman out for trying to start a PAC. But sometimes your theory of the case is even more insidious, and it is your theory I have to represent. You need to make a decision here, were you:
1) rightfully excommunicated
2) wrongfully excommunicated based on false information that Mike Davis should have discovered if he performed due diligence
3) wrongfully excommunicated for political activity
4) wrongfully excommunicated as part of a conspiracy to at the very least support theft going on in the church
I need to pick and stick with a theory if you want to do more than complain. You can't keep waffling between Mike was a good guy misled by gossiping witches and Mike was trying to cover up stealing in the church and Mike was kissing up the mayor. If he excommunicated an innocent person to advance a theft he was part of a criminal conspiracy, he likely is not such a good guy. If he excommunicated an innocent person because of a political disagreement he may be a good guy but unsuited for church leadership.
I can't tell you what should be your theory of the case. This really has to come from you. Take some time, think about, pray on it. If you have any trusted friends ask their opinion.
Pastors are used to women gossiping about each other to them. It goes with the job. That is not why you were excommunicated. it is simply not a plausible theory of the events. What is plausible is that he heard the gossip figured you were distraction to his church and kicked you to the curb. That kind of pastor doesn't necessarily believe or disbelieve anything, it isn't relevant for them. What might be relevant is given the comments you have made about your financial state you sound like a lousy donor prospect for that sort of pastor while the women you were irritating were better prospects.
You want to win this you need to start focusing. That's why I'm asking for the chronology.
Deborah, give it up already, i've said enough times i am not your neighbor, i don't live in Brandon and i don't attend Bethel. These accusations of yours are beyond ridiculous.
CD host, what D.F. is referring to is the LETTER that I sent to Pastor Mike that he read in church to the congregation.
That is the ONLY public thing that there was and in this letter I only apologized for this letter making it to the Brandon Sun and the grief that this may have caused him.
I also indicated in this letter that I DID NOT TAKE THIS LETTER to The Brandon Sun.
Did he also choose to read THIS PART to his congregation?
Well, ONLY GOD KNOWS this answer.
Did he embellish this letter?
Again, ONLY GOD KNOWS.
CD host, I just received some HORRIBLE NEWS today at church and I cried during the ENTIRE service.
Let's just put this on hold until AFTER the municipal election on October 27, 2010.
I DON'T KNOW WHY God has ALLOWED me to go through ALL OF THIS NONSENSE.
God KNOWS that I am telling the truth here.
He KNOWS that these other individuals have LIED and HE KNOWS WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. HE SAW THE WHOLE THING GO DOWN.
He KNOWS the trouble that they have caused for myself, for this Pastor, for this church, etc.
I am NOT SURE WHY GOD HAS ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN TO ME.
I feel like I was BULLIED BIG TIME by these gossips and by this fundamentalist element of legalism or whatever within this church.
I DON'T KNOW WHY GOD HAS NOT REMOVED THIS FROM THEM ALREADY, EXPOSED THESE CULPRITS FOR WHO THEY ARE, DEALT WITH THEM ALREADY, EXPOSED THE REAL TRUTH IN THIS SITUATION THAT I HAVE REPEATEDLY PRESENTED, etc.
WHY did this have to happen to me?
WHY ME?
FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
THIS HAS BEEN SO HARD ON MY DAUGHTER, MY FAMILY, UPON ALL OF US.
WHY, GOD, WHY?
HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLY BE FOR YOUR GREATER GOOD AND GLORY?
I just DON'T UNDERSTAND AT ALL.
I am such a DECENT person.
I feel like the young student in the U.S. who was SO BULLIED by her peers. They raped her to FURTHER humiliate her because they were jealous of her going out with this handsome, successful young boy from school. She COULDN'T STAND THE BULLYING ANY LONGER and so she just recently, took her own life.
I am NOT about to do that but THIS IS EXCRUCIATING for me.
This is SPIRITUAL WARFARE for me to the highest degree. But why?
WHY DID I HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS?
I am going to ask God DAILY to deal with these women and WHOEVER ELSE HE NEEDS TO DEAL WITH, WITHIN THIS CHURCH until He REMOVES whatever it is from within this congregation.
The tapes from the Court house have my neighbor stating that it WAS THIS WOMAN FROM BETHEL WHO INITIATED EVERYTHING with them.
That is what this neighbor told the court, the judge, her lawyer, etc.
This woman HARASSED THE HELL OUT OF US.
SHE SIMPLY WOULD NOT LEAVE US ALONE.
SHE WAS PERSISTENT IN HER GOSSIP, IN HER SLANDER, IN HER FALSE WITNESS, IN HER RUNNING TO AND FRO.
SHE WAS RELENTLESS.
I have NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS from someone who CALLS themselves a believer.
Clearly, I feel, that she was, in fact, working for the OTHER SIDE.
I want to see GOD bring these women to REPENTENCE for what they did to myself, my daughter, to EVERYONE that they involved within this church.
This D.F. is a LIAR and so you CANNOT BELIEVE A WORD THAT SHE SAYS.
I have NEVER come up against such a STRONG DEMONIC FORCE, CONTROLLING SPIRITS and STRONGHOLD before and so I am finding it difficult to know how to deal with.
CD host, I just found out at church this morning that MY VERY GOOD, CLOSE, PERSONAL, BEAUTIFUL FIRST NATIONS friend was found DEAD on Wednesday of this past week in Brandon.
I LOVED HIM as my VERY CLOSE, PLATONIC, PERSONAL FRIEND, SO MUCH.
My heart is SO HEAVY and I have been crying ALL MORNING.
He was SO BEAUTIFUL! He was SO INTELLIGENT! He had SO MUCH POTENTIAL! He had SO MUCH TO OFFER us!
He was a Christian but he was battling his own personal demons.
I VALUED MY FRIENDSHIP WITH THIS MAN SO MUCH!
His wife told me some personal things that indicated he valued his friendship with myself and two other individuals, VERY HIGHLY also.
I AM SO HURT. I FEEL NUMB. I AM IN SUCH SHOCK.
He was SO YOUNG. He had his WHOLE LIFE AHEAD OF HIM.
He was struggling and battling spiritual warfare within himself.
There were things within his past that he just COULDN'T seem to come to terms/grips with.
He was TORMENTED BY THESE THINGS that he COULDN'T SEEM TO LET GO OF.
The PAIN just became TOO MUCH for him to bear any longer.
I have lost my BEAUTIFUL, INTELLIGENT FRIEND and I feel SO INCREDIBLY SAD and shaken by this loss.
He was a MENTOR to MANY First Nations students within The Brandon School Division.
He wrote MANY HIGHLY INTELLIGENT, THOUGHT PROVOKING LETTERS to The Brandon Sun newspaper regarding the First Nations people, their plight, etc. and that is HOW I met him, before he was married.
I, along with many others, attended his wedding.
I was SO HOPEFUL for his VERY BRIGHT FUTURE.
I feel that we have just lost a VERY BRIGHT LIGHT this week.
I am shaken to the core by this GREAT LOSS.
My heart is VERY HEAVY with sorrow today.
I am remembering the VERY SHORT TIME that I spent ENCOURAGING HIM, building him up, supporting him, feeling ELATED for him that he had found himself a support, a life partner, a wife to share life with, etc.
I feel like I have lost a brother.
This is a HUGE LOSS for me.
I can ONLY IMAGINE how GREAT A LOSS this must be for his wife.
I held her REAL TIGHT at church this morning.
"This D.F. is a LIAR and so you CANNOT BELIEVE A WORD THAT SHE SAYS."
I love that although you've been the one who has repeatedly been caught in lies on here you have the audacity to actually say I'm the liar and that You're the descent person here. I have told the truth in every situation, not one word I've written on here is a lie.
The Bible says we'll know each other by our fruits. (By what good/bad things come out of our ministry/relationships/lifestyle) I think its Incredibly telling that there is a great deal of dischord and strife surrounding you a lot of the time.
Deborah,
"I feel like the young student in the U.S. who was SO BULLIED by her peers. They raped her to FURTHER humiliate her because they were jealous of her going out with this handsome, successful young boy from school. She COULDN'T STAND THE BULLYING ANY LONGER and so she just recently, took her own life."
You can't honestly think that you and that person have anything in common. It has not even been proven that you were bullied, only that you say you were. Your situation and hers are completely different, i can't believe that CD-Host even allowed something that far afield to be posted on here.
And as for god dealing with those that gossip and harrass others, i have told you repeatedly, DF does not live in Brandon, the ip address is not from here. You continually berate and name call DF, exactly what you say everyone did to you. Do you not see what you are doing when you blog, do you not see what is happenning. You claim you family is in pain, i know your family and they want nothing to do with the blog and want you to stop it. You are hurting them more than anyone else is.
bdn resident --
the ip address is not from here
Unless you work for Google how would you know this?
BDN Resident previously stated that they had an email from D.F. in which they could check the IP address
CD-Host, it is as TRT said, i have an email from DF. Easy to trace once you have the address as you certainly know.
Bdn Resident --
CD-Host, it is as TRT said, i have an email from DF. Easy to trace once you have the address as you certainly know.
Actually no I don't know that. What I know is that the SMTP server one up from yours trusted the server that passed it information with some header, which may or may not be fabricated. All you have to do is manually author an email with whatever header information you want and generally try and make the step before the server you drop it off at plausible.
That's how spam is sent, and certainly spam exists. I wish SMTP verified headers and eliminated the spam problem. I've been a proponent of that since the mid 1990s when spam first started being a problem. But so far emails are not signed and there is no verification.
So no, I don't know that.
CD host, in Thursday's, April 15, 2010, Brandon Sun, the article is as follows:
ANONYMOUS COMMENTATORS WILL BE IDENTIFIED by Michael Tutton from Halifax:
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY ONLINE ABOUT this story.
A Nova Scotia Supreme Court judge says internet anonymity SHOULDN'T BE A SHIELD FOR LEGAL ACTIONS and HAS ORDERED A NEWSPAPER AND GOOGLE INC. TO PROVIDE WHO POSTED COMMENTS about Halifax's top firefighters.
The newspaper and Google SAID THEY WOULD COMPLY.
Fire Chief Bill Mosher and deputy Chief Stephen Thurber are considering a DEFAMATION LAWSUIT AGAINST PEOPLE WHO POSTED COMMENTS THEY SAY WERE DEFAMATORY on the website of the Coast, a weekly alternative newspaper.
The comments were in a discussion forum hosted by the Coast and were related to stories published in the paper about racism in the fire department. No defamation suit is being contemplated about the articles themselves.
The firefighters are also CONSIDERING A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE AUTHOR OF EMAILS SENT THROUGH A GMAIL ACCOUNT.
Justice Heather Robertson of Nova Scotia Supreme Court swiftly granted the uncontested application Wednesday, noting the Internet SHOULDN'T PROVIDE ANY COVER FROM LEGAL ACTION.
Robertson said the court doesn't "condone the conduct of anonymous Internet users who make defamatory comments."
"They, like other people, have to be accountable for their actions."
Robertson cited an Ontario Superior Court of Justice decision last year where Bell Canada and Rogers were ordered to provide to York University identifying information of anonymous people who allegedly wrote defamatory emails.
The name of the movie is Erin Brockovich and it was made in 2000.
WHY are people SO AFRAID of the truth here within Brandon?
WHY are SOME individuals so AFRAID that they were WRONG, that they made a HUGE MISTAKE?
THIS is the part that is the MOST CONFUSING of all to me.
WHY do you choose to WANT to believe and then further perpetuate these lies and errors?
WHY don't you WANT to believe the truth here, in this instance?
Does it shatter your perceptions of individuals?
You were told MANY LIES and I have MANY WITNESSES to back my stories up here.
I have a DEEP, REVERENT fear of God and of lying and I DON'T KNOW WHY IT IS TAKING SO LONG FOR GOD TO REVEAL AND EXPOSE THESE TRUTHS TO EVERYONE here within Brandon but I DO BELIEVE that I WILL have my day.
I DO BELIEVE that God will NOT ALLOW me to suffer like this for much longer.
He IS A GOOD AND A RIGHTEOUS GOD, after all.
He is FOR the persecuted, the mistreated, the righteous, the wronged.
God KNOWS me and He KNOWS my heart and that what I have stated here on this blog is the truth.
I'd be VERY AFRAID of the judgement of God if I were one of the individuals on here who is lying; VERY AFRAID.
CD host, in today's Brandon Sun, Saturday, April 17, 2010, they have advertised about the Mayor's Prayer Breakfast, which is to take place on Saturday, April 24, 2010.
I have NO PROBLEM with this Prayer Breakfast BUT I DO have a problem with the fact that MOST OF Bethel will be there to SUPPORT this Mayor and yet I was ASKED TO FIND ANOTHER CHURCH TO WORSHIP IN because I openly criticized the leadership of this city in our local Brandon Sun newspaper.
Isn't there a CONFLICT involved in a situation such as this?
How can this be on the up and up?
You OPENLY SUPPORT one person and you OPENLY SHUN and cast out another for Freedom of Speech for criticizing this same individual.
How is it POSSIBLE that you GET AWAY with a situation such as this in a country like Canada?
Deborah --
CD host, I will be sending you pictures of my basement and show you ALL of the repairs that are currently URGENT and EXTREMELY needed. These are a DEFINITE eye-opener.
Please don't. I'm trying to keep this focused on church discipline. I'm eating about tens thousand in home repairs this year but that is not the fault of a church. What is relevant are things Davis did or caused. The fact that your house needs work is not a disputed fact.
Deborah --
CD host, in today's Brandon Sun, Saturday, April 17, 2010, they have advertised about the Mayor's Prayer Breakfast, which is to take place on Saturday, April 24, 2010.
I have NO PROBLEM with this Prayer Breakfast BUT I DO have a problem with the fact that MOST OF Bethel will be there to SUPPORT this Mayor and yet I was ASKED TO FIND ANOTHER CHURCH TO WORSHIP IN because I openly criticized the leadership of this city in our local Brandon Sun newspaper.
Isn't there a CONFLICT involved in a situation such as this?
Yes there is a huge conflict in a situation like this. The pastors involved are way over the line in church state separation. The
How can this be on the up and up? You OPENLY SUPPORT one person and you OPENLY SHUN and cast out another for Freedom of Speech for criticizing this same individual.
How is it POSSIBLE that you GET AWAY with a situation such as this in a country like Canada?
I don't know that Canada's laws are on churches which openly ally themselves with political factions. I think it is very harmful to the churches over the long run. And certainly I think something that should be critiqued.
"I have NO PROBLEM with this Prayer Breakfast BUT I DO have a problem with the fact that MOST OF Bethel will be there to SUPPORT this Mayor and yet I was ASKED TO FIND ANOTHER CHURCH TO WORSHIP IN because I openly criticized the leadership of this city in our local Brandon Sun newspaper."
What's the point on this? Many from bethel will be there, So will many from Calvry temple, menno. bretheren and neumerous other churches in town. It's a prayer breakfast, Organized by Prayer Canada (I think that's their name) They opporate out of BC. Many churches from around Brandon will be represented there. You don't have to like that they do it, but to be huffy because One church (In a large group of different churches) will be participating is ridiculous. They are there to pray over the leadership of Brandon and for the city, i hardly see this as a slight against you deborah.
Re: Prayer Breakfast
It's important to remember that this event is not a municipal government endorsed event.
They call it the "Mayor's Prayer Breakfast", but the Mayor or any other city leaders are not involved in this thing. It's simply ignorance on Deborah's part to even try to bring this up as an issue.
AGAIN, Mayor's Prayer Breakfast is put on by a private organization, who put this event on in multiple cities, without the approval or endorsement of anyone in city hall.
CD-Host,
I want the blog removed that mentioned me and my customer. I know who bdn resident is and they are not on vic ave. I have asked you before to keep anything regarding me or my family off of this blog. I will sue if anything from now on is mentioned regarding my business or my customers.
Deborah,
You lied again, how unusual. What about your promise to leave us out of this. I can tell you are real trustworthy. LEAVE US ALONE. i hope that is simple enough for you.
Wayne --
I don't take kindly to threats. I also have no idea who Bdn resident is, nor do I have any idea who you are. Nor did I ever promise you anything, you requested a few deletions of material unrelated to church discipline case and in that situation I agreed.
You want to sue, bring it on. You understand this is a US blog, written by an American involving church discipline. You have any idea how high the barrier is as far as 1st Amendment protection? You are going to need to show a compelling state interest over and above libel. You think you have that go ahead.
You want to discuss posts in a more civil manner then I'll be happy to consider a request for deletion of unrelated material.
CD-Host, your right, i should have not threatened you, I meant that towards deborah not you. But why am i involved in this at all. My business and my customers have nothing to do with this blog or this situation that Deborah has brought up. Deborah will be getting a call from my lawyer regarding slanderous comments. But to you i ask to please remove the post. I am not about to loose a very large contract over this. This blog is about church disipline, not who i am or who my customers are.
Looks like I missed some action on the weekend, shows what happens when you go for a holiday weekend away. I have just got off the phone with a friend who discribed what was being said on the blog.
I appoligize to you for being broght into this and your business customers being mentioned. That was never my intention, i hope it doesn't hurt our friendship. CD-Host, please on my behalf remove the post regarding him and his customer. I know he didn't mean to threaten you with a lawsuit, but he is very upset over the phone call he got regarding the blog that was made. Deborah he is very upset with though.
Deborah, nice try on the guess of who i am. I don't work on Vic, or own a business anymore. I live south of Richmond, east of 10th, and have been retired long enough to learn how to enjoy it. So better luck on the next guess. Perhaps i will see you at the prayer breakfast on the 24th.
Again i apologize about the mistake, will you apologize Deborah regarding your mistake as well?
Sorry I missed these two comments. Crazy week at work. OK, I have no idea what post you all are talking about. Give me a few lines and I'll pull the post assuming there is nothing about church discipline in it.
Wayne just so you understand a lot of what gets written on this thread is highly contextual. I frequently can't figure out what Brandon people are talking about especially when they talk indirectly like "the wife of the school administrator" and another person refers to them as "the church secretary".
CD-Host. I do understand the problem you face regarding the posts that are made. Here is the line of the post that i would like removed if you could.
"Bdn. Resident, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE. You have a business on Victoria Avenue.
My sister's husband fixes your computers. He does this work for you.
You DO NOT KNOW my family. You know my sister's husband. That is all."
As I said, i don't what she puts as long as it doesn't include me, my family or my business. She could have made that assumption on who bdn resident is without including me or my wife or my business.
The post was made : April 17, 2010 8:52 AM
why aren't my posts being approved? -tt
Wayne --
Fair enough that is a reasonable request, post is deleted. But since I'm deleting it, for lurkers who read after the fact there was nothing slanderous regarding Wayne or Bdn Resident in her post. It was a speculation on Bdn Resident's identity tied to who he was and how he knew the family.
But I do get to make a small editorial here. Wayne you are overly sensitive about this. Its harmless for me to do what you want here, since I'd rather keep this Brandon specific stuff off the blog. But assuming what goes on here is representative of your general attitude. You are the brother in law of a mayoral candidate you either move away, divorce the sister or accept the fact that people in town are going to tie you together lightly. She's obviously caught the political bug. Would you care that your plumber's girlfriend did time for shoplifiting or if your grocer went to fetish parties?
Your personal life isn't that interesting to your customers. Do you show up, can fix stuff fast, are the rates reasonable and are you pleasant on the phone and in person? That's what they are about.
Take it or leave it but that is my $.02.
CD-Host - fair enough, i am sensitive to the posts about myself that deborah makes. That is due to the dealings i have had to endure over the years, including many things that don't need to be posted here as they don't involve the church or even her mayoral thing. I would rather not enter personal issues I have with her on this blog though, regardless of how i feel.
I do appreciate you removing the post though. Thank you.
CD-Host, sorry i missed the one post about the emails. It is true that you can fabricate headers so that tracing them is unreliable. But what you don't know is that there is another way to trace emails using the ip address. It uses that actual coding from the email and is at a far lower written level than a simple header. Regardless, it is a moot issue as it doesn't involve the church issue or deborah will never believe anything i say anyway.
Bdn Resident --
You can fabricate the IP headers too. That was the point about SMTP not checking the entire chain. Some of the servers check the step that was immediate before but there is no way to check further back so any trusted server can just inject with a fake chain. Here is a decent article on the subject header forgery.
well, its now the weekend. Can't wait to see what kinds of crazy it'll bring.
-tt
Deborah --
I'm going to let this post slide because Wayne was threatening you in the previous post, and further there are other references to the family situation. But the Boschman family squabble except as instigated by Mike Davis is off topic.
actually deborah there is no by-law that states you have to be that far from a public entrance etc... thats commonly misunderstood by people, but seeing as I hate it when people smoke, I just don't tell them. Now see what you did here? He didn't use the nicest tone, but wanted to be left off this site and has asked more than once for this. Rather you decided to attack him on here and try and insult him. Can you see the pattern? That road of immaturity is going down your street too.
-tt
TT --
Just to disagree. She didn't attack Wayne, she neutrally presented him to Bdn Resident as "not knowing her family". That is at least it appears the person who brought Wayne up again was Bdn Resident and there was no attack. Wayne conversely attacked her.
That being the case the dynamics of the Boschman family aren't relevant and your last post was a personal attack against Deborah. I don't want to start blocking posts again but I'm not going to allow Wayne or his supporters to attack Deborah for the Wayne related issues and then claim "Wayne doesn't want to be mentioned here" as a defense. If Wayne is off limits then Deborah's relationship with Wayne is off limits. Unless there is a clear institutional tie to Davis or Bethel (Deborah note the institutional part) then I don't see any connection between Wayne and Church Discipline.
Who care who is smoking or not? Why is that even on there? For someone who keeps going on about abhoring gossip why do you keep bringing it up? What does someone smoking have anything to do with the 'situation' at bethel at all? I do recalled more then once cd host having you tell me that personal attacks aren't allowed (and that i'm not above the rules) Yet apparently others are. Nearly every post made by deborah is a personal attack against someone. (Ie; when disagree'd with, she claims the one who goes against what she says is a witch, evil, etc....) seems to me those are personal attacks, wouldn't you think? Yet it seems you go out of your way to remind all (who aren't agreeing with what's going on here) that they aren't above the rules. If personal attacks aren't allowed, then why are you allowing them at all? To claim tt's line of "Can you see the pattern? That road of immaturity is going down your street too." is a personal attack, yet leaving a multitude of posts calling myself, tt, and who ever else disagree's with deboarah all sorts of filthy names is a bit hypocritical isn't it?
If the rules apply to everyone, shouldn't the rules then actually apply to everyone?
DF --
They do equally apply to you all with one exception. Deborah gets more leniency, as you know, because she is a principle. Mike Davis if he came on directly would get more leniency. Those rules don't change. Named principles get treated better than anonymous posters using aliases.
That being said I have blocked some of Deborah's posts when they don't have content. And I have allowed some of your attacks to stand.
oh come off of it, deborah is getting leniency because she's fulfilling your agenda.
She may be a principle in the situation, yet i don't see how her sitting on here calling people all sorts of filthy names has anything to do with church discipline at all.
DF --
As much as you and TT scream bias the record on this rest of this blog show otherwise. You will see lots of principles that take positions opposite to me given the same leniency. And calling me a liar is a personal attack and I just showed you leniency.
please, point out anywhere that i called you a liar? I said "Oh come off of it".
You're making assumptions again on what you think is said rather than what was really said.
Whatever, keep yipping about how the church and and everyone else is against you.
And as for going to church and being baptised and all the rest. Aren't you on this blog to prove that only certain churchs should be approved.
But then that should be my choice, not yours. Funny how that works isn't it. You who are claiming that you aren't allowed to say what you believe needs to be said, but when I make a decision it has to be wrong doesn't it. You don't want to hear my opinion about this or anything else about you. Well, that is easy enough, problem solved for both of us.
Cd-Host, one question if I might. How does my smoking or my decision regading church attendance or baptism ( i am united by the way) or her issues with me have anything to do with church disipline regarding Deborah and Bethel? If you decide to leave the post, that is your decision, but i fail to see the relevance of her slamming me in public over my lifestyle choices and beliefs in faith. Everyone has the right to believe what they want without being persecuted over it. I thought the states fought a war over being able to believe and think what you want to, not say things to deliberately try to hurt them. Almost had a tear in my eye when i read what she put. Honestly, I still think it is bad form and shows little maturity to attack someone like that.
Wayne --
If you mean the post from the 23rd it doesn't have anything to do with this thread. That was a mistake to let through. Its gone now and you of course have the ability to remove your own posts.
As for her slamming you in public... none of it is relevant. I would like to have a discussion of Mike Davis while what I have is a family squabble. In the direct sense with you and the indirect sense with DF and TT. And in fact this has gone long enough.
Deborah has proven her case that to the level possible that Davis engaged in gross misconduct regarding her excommunication. She has decided not to however bring a formal appeal. Davis has refused to answer any questions regarding his impropriety and misconduct, so without a formal appeal the definitive facts are unlikely to ever come out. Whether his motivation for this misconduct was arrogance, frustration with Deborah, loyalty to corrupt city officials or something else will never be known.
She has proven at least on this blog that she is subjected to regular coordinated slander from people associated with Bethel. She has failed to prove that Bethel has organized this in any way though given structure of abusive churches it is likely they have.
On both the dog and the house there has been no evidence presented tying this to Bethel.
And with that I'm shutting this thread down.
Deborah has asked me to post a closing comment indicating:
My son spoke to Wayne and Wayne told him that he felt that I lied about NOT involving him or his family, his business, etc. on this blog.
THIS IS WHAT IT WAS that he felt that I lied about.
He DOES NOT DISPUTE the other things.
She felt uncomfortable allowing Wayne's final "lying" comment to remain without properly contextualizing it. Hopefully this shuts the thread down.
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