In the following thread a user by the name of Kamila made provably false claims about planned parenthood. Those were pointed out to be false. Tim Bayly then wrote an off topic post supporting the claims. When asked why I was defending Margaret Sanger and planned parenthood from obviously false statements; I pointed out that lying about ones political opponents was a sin and that taking pride in it was damnable. God is truth. The responses were deleted.
At this point Tim Bayly has knowingly, intentionally with full volition and forethought disseminated false information about a person for the purpose of defaming them. He has supported others in doing so. Moreover when confronted with honest refutations of his position he has suppressed them so as to continue the defemation. I think it is time to consider him a false preacher and move on.
He and his clique had proven themselves totally unconcerned with either the bible or with moral conduct.
Tuesday, July 31, 2007
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Here is a link to three blog articles detailing how Light and Corrie were treated over on the Bayly blog last September. The first article is at the bottom of the page. The person I don't name in the first article is Light. I give the link here because you asked for more information on Jen's Gems.
I don't know about the comments about Sanger, but supposing you were wrong and they were right, it would be very easy for them to provide corrective information instead of deleting your responses like that.
I don't care for that blog, the way they delete honest and hard questions, give people the boot, some of their reasoning, and more.
Simple --
Thanks for the links. I posted the following on Jen's Gem's regarding the Corrie story
In reading Corrie’s I was rather floored.
I’m a feminist. My wife is a feminist. Most of my (real life) friends are feminists. The fact that Corrie doesn’t despise being a woman and objects to woman being described in ways the Klan would describe blacks does not make her a feminist. It also doesn’t make her indifferent to the bible.
Non religious feminists have the same level of interest in what the bible or church says about woman as the people on this blog care what the Bhagavad Gita says about woman. They don’t struggle with this issue at all. Conversely because of the struggle, its pretty obvious, Corrie is deeply committed to living a biblical life and deeply committed to biblical teachings. Evangelical feminists explicitly call for equality of parenting which is something Corrie isn’t doing. I’m going to use the “takes to know one” and say she isn’t one. She is a home schooling mother hanging out on Christian blogs.
Corrie is from my reading a fairly right wing evangelical who objects to Talibanism being injected into Christianity. Feel free to correct me since you all know her better but that’s my $.02 on what happened with her.
xxxx
My wife and I are at our local Planned Parenthood all the times that abortions are performed, to offer truth, support and love to the women who are victimizers and victims at Planned Parenthood.
I've never witnessed Tim Bayly lie about what goes on there. What exactly are you claiming was the lie?
The biggest lie in the world today is Abortion so anyone who speaks the truth about abortion is a liar to those who love death - people even claim my wife and I lie even though my wife and I have direct experience that is equal to anyone else's. We give facts but unpopular facts are called lies.
Fact: Margaret Sanger said, "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population"
Sanger said many similar eugenicist and white supremicist things. Yet Sanger isn't compared with the Klan but quite the opposite, those who oppose her ideological children are.
Tim Bayly can't delete your blog entries - how exactly did Mr. Bayly lie? How did you tell the truth?
Clint --
First off the question was not whether Sanger was into the eugenics movement between WWI and WWII as many American intellectuals were, but rather the claim was that Planned Parenthood was actively supporting eugenics currently, a much stronger claim.
Planned Parenthood's had written an official response to the whole Sanger issue. Any accurate assessment of Sanger's views with respect to PP requires a response to that article.
Fact: Margaret Sanger said, "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population"
OK what is your source for that fact? How do we know she said that? That is a pretty strong "fact".
As for how he lied I explained quite clearly, the thread occurred on his board not here. I posted the notice here because I thought and continue to think there should be a record of his dishonest behavior in this matter.
No one is going to get accused by me for lying about someone who is not deliberately propagating false information. I didn't call Bayly a liar for being wrong, I didn't call Bayly a liar for believing bad research. I called Bayly a liar for having this discussion, deleting good information and not indicating that such a thing had happened. That is political censorship for the purpose of advocating a position to be false, i.e. lying.
I just found out that Nashville Tennessee, (a place where many residents are angry about all the Mexcian-Americans that are there) has strategically placed PP's in Mexican neighborhoods.
I'd say this is strong evidence that PP is still about Eugenics as Margaret Sanger always ways.
How does the number of PP in Mexican neighborhoods compare to the number of PP in upper lower class -> working class white neighborhoods? To prove racism the very least you need to show is racial disparity. I know for example that Vanderbelt University has an on campus PP.
I should also mention that there is a huge spike in sexually transmitted diseases among Latinos in the last decade. Planned Parenthood has been trying to get sexually active Latinos to use protection and providing STD information. This isn't a dark secret: Latino outreach initiative
I mis-moderated something. Because of all the spam, I hit the reject button too quickly on a post by a user named Kooz, where he just posted this video Glenn Beck...Margaret Sanger and today which had to do with Sanger. This is a conversation between Glenn Beck and Angela Franks (author of Margaret Sanger's Eugenic Legacy: The Control of Female Fertility).
Sorry about that Kooz, but just a link to youtube without content looked like spam early in the morning until I checked.
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From
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger
SANGER: "We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. And we do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Commenting on the 'Negro Project' in a letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, December 10, 1939. - Sanger manuscripts, Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Also described in Linda Gordon's Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America. New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976.
(Note: There is a different date circulated, e.g. Oct. 19, 1939; but Dec. 10 is the correct date of Mrs. Sanger's letter to Mr. Gamble.)
From
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger
SANGER: "We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. And we do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Commenting on the 'Negro Project' in a letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, December 10, 1939. - Sanger manuscripts, Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Also described in Linda Gordon's Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America. New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976.
(Note: There is a different date circulated, e.g. Oct. 19, 1939; but Dec. 10 is the correct date of Mrs. Sanger's letter to Mr. Gamble.)
Hello Eric --
You didn't provide much context for the quote in terms of what this has to do with the debate.
The argument was over whether Planned Parenthood in 2007 was deliberately targeting minorities as a racial strategy, or rather that Planned Parenthood works mainly with the poor-lower middle class and that class is more racially diverse. Planned Parenthood has claimed consistently that their clinic locations are based on a shortage of PCPs in an area and the data is rather clear they are correct. Moreover of the 800+ clinics only 110 are located primarily in neighborhoods that are 25% or more African American.
In terms of Margaret Sanger specifically: Margaret Sanger unquestionably supported eugenics in the 1920s. Primarily she was concerned with biological mental disorders, remember these were untreatable during that time. However, in the context of 1921 when the Klan was having a resurgence she, at that point very influential political thinker, attacked racial eugenics. She has a long list of published works on the subject of racial eugenics.
I have no idea what the context was of that letter in 1939. But it sounds like she was concerned about the anti-choice activists promoting the idea that contraception was part of racism and wanted to employ African American spokespersons to advance the cause and thus ally fears. Birth control frequently generates an attack from conservative religious authorities in the male establishment. Margaret Sanger was a huge player in getting the white Protestant churches to change their opinions as well state governments. Getting black minister onboard prior to an initiative is fully consistent with her life's work and is in no way different than what she did in the white communities.
So if the point of this quote was to prove Bayly correct, it fails.
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